Florence Devouard

[The Joy]

Florence Devouard (T-H-L)

One of the saddest BLPs I ever saw. I suppose this is karma coming back to bite?

Devouard became active on Wikipedia when she was a housewife and taking care of two children.[5][unreliable source?][verification needed] She joined the board of Wikimedia Foundation in June 2004 and was a founder of Wikimedia France in October 2004. She has served on the Advisory Board of the Foundation since July 2008.

Co-founder of Wikimedia France in 2004, she is vice-chair of its board as of 2011 until December 2012.[6]

At times, she has disagreed with the notion of "verifiability, not truth" as the basis for building consensus via collaboration.[7][unreliable source?]

...

As of 2008, she lived in the village of Malintrat, near the city of Clermont-Ferrand in France.[citation needed]

[Kelly Martin]

There is no credible reason why Florence ought to have a biography on Wikipedia. She is fundamentally not a notable person.

[The Joy]

There is no credible reason why Florence ought to have a biography on Wikipedia. She is fundamentally not a notable person.

True, though I'm guessing since she's helped build her own article, she will not be happy if someone argues for deletion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =376927972

[The Adversary]

Well, well; hi there, Tim:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Florence Devouard (T-H-L)

[Poetlister]

It is claimed that she is a Chevalier of the Ordre national du Mérite. If so, that ought to be grounds for notability. However, I have not found a reliable source to confirm this.

[Randy from Boise]

It is claimed that she is a Chevalier of the Ordre national du Mérite. If so, that ought to be grounds for notability. However, I have not found a reliable source to confirm this.

That would mean Special Notability Guideline for "Any Biography" No. 1: "The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor, or has been nominated for one several times."

WP states there are 187,000 recipients of this award, which is a big enough number that some people might argue against its "specialness," but that would seem to be sufficient to my mind according to the wording of the clause.

RfB

[Randy from Boise]

Ah, here it is, via French WP...

http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTex ... 0018800905

DECRET
Décret du 16 mai 2008 portant promotion et nomination

NOR: PREX0806566D
ELI: Non disponible


Par décret du Président de la République en date du 16 mai 2008, pris sur le rapport du Premier ministre et des ministres et visé pour son exécution par le chancelier de l'ordre national du Mérite, vu les déclarations du conseil de l'ordre portant que les présentes promotions et nominations sont faites en conformité des lois, décrets et règlements en vigueur, sont promus ou nommés, pour prendre rang de la date de la remise réglementaire de l'insigne :

CHANCELLERIE DE L'ORDRE NATIONAL DU MÉRITE

* * *

Au grade de chevalier

* * *

Mme Devouard, née Nibart (Florence, Jacqueline, Sylvie), présidente d'une fondation mondiale ; 15 ans d'activités professionnelles.

* * *

RfB

[Randy from Boise]

One final aside is that French WP had the date of Ms. Devouard's award wrong, listing it as June 16, 2008, not May. Sneaky vandalism maybe?

RfB

[thekohser]

Way to withdraw that nomination, Tim. That's something that Jimbo's done a couple of times, too. Following in the footsteps of a hero, I suppose?

[Randy from Boise]

Way to withdraw that nomination, Tim. That's something that Jimbo's done a couple of times, too. Following in the footsteps of a hero, I suppose?

That's how AfD runs. If one accidentally puts up a Speedy Keep or really blows it on a clear GNG pass, one withdraws the nomination.

RfB

[thekohser]

Way to withdraw that nomination, Tim. That's something that Jimbo's done a couple of times, too. Following in the footsteps of a hero, I suppose?

That's how AfD runs. If one accidentally puts up a Speedy Keep or really blows it on a clear GNG pass, one withdraws the nomination.

Too bad it doesn't run on careful fact-checking aforethought.

[Randy from Boise]

Way to withdraw that nomination, Tim. That's something that Jimbo's done a couple of times, too. Following in the footsteps of a hero, I suppose?

That's how AfD runs. If one accidentally puts up a Speedy Keep or really blows it on a clear GNG pass, one withdraws the nomination.

Too bad it doesn't run on careful fact-checking aforethought.

I checked for GNG and wasn't wowwed, missed the SNG criterion until Poetlister pointed it out in this thread, fixed my mistake as soon as I was aware. So sue me.

RfB

[Poetlister]

“When my information changes, I alter my conclusions. What do you do, sir?”

[thekohser]

Tim knows I'm just messin' with him. I owe him $10, anyway, so he's clearly smarter than me.

[Randy from Boise]

Tim knows I'm just messin' with him. I owe him $10, anyway, so he's clearly smarter than me.

Just 118 more consecutive wins and I'll be able to pay for those rabies shots...

RfB

[The Joy]

Way to withdraw that nomination, Tim. That's something that Jimbo's done a couple of times, too. Following in the footsteps of a hero, I suppose?

That's how AfD runs. If one accidentally puts up a Speedy Keep or really blows it on a clear GNG pass, one withdraws the nomination.

RfB

But withdrawing the nomination does not mean the discussion stops though, right? It's still possible it will be deleted in a week.

[Randy from Boise]

Way to withdraw that nomination, Tim. That's something that Jimbo's done a couple of times, too. Following in the footsteps of a hero, I suppose?

That's how AfD runs. If one accidentally puts up a Speedy Keep or really blows it on a clear GNG pass, one withdraws the nomination.

RfB

But withdrawing the nomination does not mean the discussion stops though, right? It's still possible it will be deleted in a week.

No, it will be kept. Discussion continues until someone shuts it down but it usually happens pretty fast after a withdrawal of a nomination.

RfB

[Poetlister]

There was a non-admin closure.

The result was withdrawn. Carrite withdrew this nomination due to Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Any_biography providing rationale for inclusion. (non-admin closure) Rcsprinter123 (indicate) 10:56, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

This bit was interesting:

* Leave it up to Florence, as we did for Kevin. We extend this favour to Wikipedians with marginal notability. (Not marginally notable non-Wikipedians, though. We take care of our own.) --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 00:02, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

* Wait, what? If she is notable, then she is notable. Giving a "Wikipedian" special favors when it comes to notability and not others speaks wonders for the "integrity" of Wikipedia. --CNMall41 (talk) 00:07, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

* I take the opposite view. If the subject is marginally notable (whether or not they're a Wikipedia insider) we should take into account their feelings on the matter. But yes, we should be consistent. If we extend this courtesy to insiders, we should treat non-Wikipedians with the same level of respect. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 00:16, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

* Of course. I see no reason "not" to take the opinion into consideration, but I do not feel that they get to decide their own inclusion, especially when they are a Wikipedian. This is only going to cause negativity for Wikipedia which already comes under fire for its editing issues. --CNMall41 (talk) 00:23, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

* Comment - It's a really horrible idea to let WP content (or lack thereof) be controlled by the subjects themselves. There should be a brick wall between the whims of subjects and the actual content of the encyclopedia. Anthony and I have disagreed on this vehemently for a long time and will continue to disagree vehemently on this. We are not here for "courtesy content for marginally notable people." Notable is notable. Non-notable is non-notable. Now somebody needs to shut this sucker down, the nomination is withdrawn. Carrite (talk) 07:04, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

[The Joy]

Way to withdraw that nomination, Tim. That's something that Jimbo's done a couple of times, too. Following in the footsteps of a hero, I suppose?

That's how AfD runs. If one accidentally puts up a Speedy Keep or really blows it on a clear GNG pass, one withdraws the nomination.

RfB

But withdrawing the nomination does not mean the discussion stops though, right? It's still possible it will be deleted in a week.

No, it will be kept. Discussion continues until someone shuts it down but it usually happens pretty fast after a withdrawal of a nomination.

RfB

I thought the rule was that as long as there was one arguing "Delete," the discussion continues until it reaches the deadline and an involved administrator weighs the arguments?

[Vigilant]

* Comment - It's a really horrible idea to let WP content (or lack thereof) be controlled by the subjects themselves. There should be a brick wall between the whims of subjects and the actual content of the encyclopedia. Anthony and I have disagreed on this vehemently for a long time and will continue to disagree vehemently on this. We are not here for "courtesy content for marginally notable people." Notable is notable. Non-notable is non-notable. Now somebody needs to shut this sucker down, the nomination is withdrawn. Carrite (talk) 07:04, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Only the Sith deal in absolutes

[Randy from Boise]

* Comment - It's a really horrible idea to let WP content (or lack thereof) be controlled by the subjects themselves. There should be a brick wall between the whims of subjects and the actual content of the encyclopedia. Anthony and I have disagreed on this vehemently for a long time and will continue to disagree vehemently on this. We are not here for "courtesy content for marginally notable people." Notable is notable. Non-notable is non-notable. Now somebody needs to shut this sucker down, the nomination is withdrawn. Carrite (talk) 07:04, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Only the Sith deal in absolutes

You'd think a software guy like you could appreciate the notion of 0 and 1.

RfB

[Randy from Boise]

Way to withdraw that nomination, Tim. That's something that Jimbo's done a couple of times, too. Following in the footsteps of a hero, I suppose?

That's how AfD runs. If one accidentally puts up a Speedy Keep or really blows it on a clear GNG pass, one withdraws the nomination.

RfB

But withdrawing the nomination does not mean the discussion stops though, right? It's still possible it will be deleted in a week.

No, it will be kept. Discussion continues until someone shuts it down but it usually happens pretty fast after a withdrawal of a nomination.

RfB

I thought the rule was that as long as there was one arguing "Delete," the discussion continues until it reaches the deadline and an involved administrator weighs the arguments?

Sometimes. Feel free to try your luck at Deletion Review.

RfB

[Vigilant]

* Comment - It's a really horrible idea to let WP content (or lack thereof) be controlled by the subjects themselves. There should be a brick wall between the whims of subjects and the actual content of the encyclopedia. Anthony and I have disagreed on this vehemently for a long time and will continue to disagree vehemently on this. We are not here for "courtesy content for marginally notable people." Notable is notable. Non-notable is non-notable. Now somebody needs to shut this sucker down, the nomination is withdrawn. Carrite (talk) 07:04, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Only the Sith deal in absolutes

You'd think a software guy like you could appreciate the notion of 0 and 1.

RfB

I live on the hardware/software border.

I fear the analog but must embrace it.

[Poetlister]

I thought the rule was that as long as there was one arguing "Delete," the discussion continues until it reaches the deadline and an involved administrator weighs the arguments?

I assume that your choice of words was deliberate.

Once the proposer has withdrawn, it's a bit silly to keep the discussion going. Of course, things that are a bit silly do keep happening over there.

[Anthonyhcole]

* Comment - It's a really horrible idea to let WP content (or lack thereof) be controlled by the subjects themselves. There should be a brick wall between the whims of subjects and the actual content of the encyclopedia. Anthony and I have disagreed on this vehemently for a long time and will continue to disagree vehemently on this. We are not here for "courtesy content for marginally notable people." Notable is notable. Non-notable is non-notable. Now somebody needs to shut this sucker down, the nomination is withdrawn. Carrite (talk) 07:04, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Only the Sith deal in absolutes

You'd think a software guy like you could appreciate the notion of 0 and 1.

RfB

There are a few decimals between 0 and 1. In a nutshell, the problem with Wikipedia is the folk who only see 1 and not 1, black and white. There is a whole world of uncertainty out there that you're missing out on, Randy.

[Randy from Boise]

You'd think a software guy like you could appreciate the notion of 0 and 1.

RfB

There are a few decimals between 0 and 1. In a nutshell, the problem with Wikipedia is the folk who only see 1 and not 1, black and white. There is a whole world of uncertainty out there that you're missing out on, Randy.

This is, of course, the main reason we are on opposite sides of the BLP debate. You see every biography's suitability in 256 shades of grey — for 250 of which if the subject utters a peep, it is our duty as citizens and Christian people to comply with their earnest, good faith desires, so as not to impinge on their rights of privacy and personhood.

This is no way to run an encyclopedia and a recipe for chaos for the deletion process. Moreover, it opens the door for utter subjectivity over the acceptability of all content and opens the door for mob rule and retaliatory deletion of the work of "enemies," personal and political.

A set of firm notability rules serves all content writers, it defends their work against capriciousness. Thank god we have moved past the "I Like It"/"Seems Important to Me" days of deletion debate to a more or less orderly, rules-driven system governing content.

RfB