Doxxipedia: Exact location data of notable living people being published

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TheSpacebook
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Doxxipedia: Exact location data of notable living people being published

Unread post by TheSpacebook » Sun Mar 31, 2024 7:55 pm

Hello everyone. I’m requesting eyes on a topic on the BLP noticeboard regarding Wikipedia publishing the home addresses of notable individuals, and concerns I have that this creates a security issue for them and doxxes them. My proposed addition to Wikipedia BLP policy is: If the residence wasn’t notable before the notable living person moved in and isn’t open to the public, don’t include exact location information.

Here is my original post, I’ve moved it to correct location of the BLP policy talk page here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... _Addresses
I’m writing on this noticeboard as I have noticed a wider issue on some articles about living people, and I think it needs to be addressed as a Wikipedia-wide issue, not just on the individual talk pages when this happens as a whack-a-mole, because it affects the security of living individuals.

Beyoncé and Jay-Z are two of the most high profile individuals, and their address is the title of the article about their home. I think it should be moved to ‘Beyoncé and Jay-Z’s California mansion’, or some variant of that, with all reference to its exact location removed.

The article about one of Taylor Swift’s homes, High Watch, contains the building’s address, its coordinates, and a map. But confusingly, the article also says “Several stalking, trespassing, and home invasion incidents have been reported at the house since Swift's purchase.” acknowledging that the house is a target. So it seems very irresponsible to have its address and the geographical coordinates on it. And so does the article about one of Swift’s other private residences, Samuel Goldwyn Estate. Furthermore, it is well reported in the media that Swift herself sees this as an issue. For example, she requests her planes are hidden from live flight data trackers, and has demanded that Jack Sweeney stops aggregating her flight data, with her attorney saying it’s “stalking and harassing behaviour”.

Bill Gates’s house has the same issues as above.

The buildings are not notable in their own right, and have only gained notoriety because of the people that own it. None of these articles were created before those notable people moved in. I fail to see how having the exact location data on living peoples private residences enriches the encyclopedic content of those articles. I don’t think the articles should be deleted, as they have since become notable, just the exact location data removed.

They live there as private individuals, not as public figures. Is having the address/map location/coordinates so easily available responsible?

The difference is homes like Mar-a-Lago and Buckingham Palace are notable in their own right and can be visited by the public, and were notable before the owners moved in. I think Wikipedia needs to set in stone some clear and written policy about this.
In a reply to the above, I later said that the location information should also be removed from all of the page history versions too and:
I’m speaking specifically to the ethics of Wikipedia and its BLP policy- regardless of what other websites do. For example, Wikipedia doesn’t include the birth names of transgender people if they were not notable under that name, even if that name may be well reported elsewhere. So I think a similar simple rule should be written into Wikipedia BLP policy: If the residence wasn’t notable before the notable living person moved in and isn’t open to the public, don’t include exact location information. It should also be noted that those other websites sometimes get the location information directly from Wikipedia, and deem it acceptable to also publish that data merely because Wikipedia does so too.
Last edited by Midsize Jake on Mon Apr 01, 2024 6:09 am, edited 4 times in total.

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rnu
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Re: Doxxipedia: The Publication of Living People’s Private Home Addresses

Unread post by rnu » Sun Mar 31, 2024 8:01 pm

Private addresses are in almost all cases unencyclopedic. Including them is irresponsible and common sense, not to mention common decency should make it obvious that this kind of information has no legitimate place on Wikipedia. So Wikipedians will go to great lengths to make sure the information is included. You're arguing on the side of common sense and common decency -- expect resistance to the death.
"ἄνθρωπον ζητῶ" (Diogenes of Sinope)

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Re: Doxxipedia: The Publication of Living People’s Private Home Addresses

Unread post by rnu » Sun Mar 31, 2024 8:11 pm

And it doesn't just happen in articles about the places where people live. It happens in BLP articles in general. E.g. the article pm Sophie von Maltzan (T-H-L) (the one with the submarine at DYK) casually mentioned where she lives until the information was made slightly more vague by (presumably) Sophie von Maltzan (T-C-L) herself.
"ἄνθρωπον ζητῶ" (Diogenes of Sinope)

TheSpacebook
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Re: Doxxipedia: The Publication of Living People’s Private Home Addresses

Unread post by TheSpacebook » Sun Mar 31, 2024 8:24 pm

Absolutely astonishing. In my original post I said this:
I don’t think the articles should be deleted, as they have since become notable, just the exact location data removed.
The first reply completely misrepresented me and replied with:
If as you assert these homes are not notable, it would be best to nominate them for deletion.
Last edited by TheSpacebook on Sun Mar 31, 2024 8:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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AndyTheGrump
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Re: Doxxipedia: The Publication of Living People’s Private Home Addresses

Unread post by AndyTheGrump » Sun Mar 31, 2024 8:24 pm

@TheSpacebook: yeah, Wikipedia does that. I can absolutely guarantee the "Wikipedia isn't censored' crowd will come out in force if this looks like gaining the slightest traction. And then there is the common attitude of many fans of Beyoncé, Swift etc that they have the right to fill Wikipedia with anything and everything they can glean from the internet about their subjects of adulation. So, no chance.

TheSpacebook
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Re: Doxxipedia: The Publication of Living People’s Private Home Addresses

Unread post by TheSpacebook » Mon Apr 01, 2024 12:18 am

WP:BLPPRIVACY should already cover this because it says:
articles should not include postal addresses… If you see personal information such as phone numbers, addresses, account numbers, etc. in a BLP or anywhere on Wikipedia, edit the page to remove it
However, the article for one of the most high-profile living musicians, Beyoncé, current reads:
the couple bought [redacted Beyoncé’s actual address], a house in Malibu, California, designed by the architect Tadao Ando, for $200 million

TheSpacebook
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Re: Doxxipedia: The Publication of Living People’s Private Home Addresses

Unread post by TheSpacebook » Mon Apr 01, 2024 1:58 am

Most of the replies agree with me, but there are some creases that need to ironed out with regard to the specific BLP policy that should be introduced. It is great to see that this has immediately been met with a common-sense approach; especially as notable individuals are often the target to harassment and stalking. :applause: It is great to see that this has been likened to the Wikipedia policy of not using transgender people’s birth name if they weren’t notably known by that name. :applause: :applause: :applause:

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Re: Doxxipedia: The Publication of Living People’s Private Home Addresses

Unread post by Ryuichi » Mon Apr 01, 2024 4:48 am

Neither needs nor warrants a new policy, particularly one tied to "notability", because:
TheSpacebook wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2024 12:18 am
WP:BLPPRIVACY should already cover this because it says:
articles should not include postal addresses… If you see personal information such as phone numbers, addresses, account numbers, etc. in a BLP or anywhere on Wikipedia, edit the page to remove it

TheSpacebook
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Re: Doxxipedia: The Publication of Living People’s Private Home Addresses

Unread post by TheSpacebook » Mon Apr 01, 2024 5:01 am

Ryuichi wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2024 4:48 am
Neither needs nor warrants a new policy, particularly one tied to "notability", because:
TheSpacebook wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2024 12:18 am
WP:BLPPRIVACY should already cover this because it says:
articles should not include postal addresses… If you see personal information such as phone numbers, addresses, account numbers, etc. in a BLP or anywhere on Wikipedia, edit the page to remove it
I think it does warrant a new policy because it’s currently loosely applied on houses that only become notable when a notable individual moves in. The grey-area that needs to be made clearer is the part that’s talks about not including exact location data if the residence doesn’t pass WP:GNG before the move-in date. The houses of Bill Gates and Beyonce and Jay-Z both violate this. So I think a new policy which specifically focuses on this is needed. WP:BLPHOME

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SarekOfVulcan
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Re: Doxxipedia: The Publication of Living People’s Private Home Addresses

Unread post by SarekOfVulcan » Mon Apr 01, 2024 2:12 pm

Stephen King's (former) house in Bangor is one of the city's most noted tourist attractions. :) If someone added the street address to the article, I wouldn't see a problem. (If someone added his current address in Florida, I grant you, I'd have to think about it.)

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The Blue Newt
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Re: Doxxipedia: The Publication of Living People’s Private Home Addresses

Unread post by The Blue Newt » Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:15 pm

SarekOfVulcan wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2024 2:12 pm
Stephen King's (former) house in Bangor is one of the city's most noted tourist attractions. :) If someone added the street address to the article, I wouldn't see a problem. (If someone added his current address in Florida, I grant you, I'd have to think about it.)
That’s about how I see this. If the address is a well known commonplace widely available, no problem.

(I am willing to make an exception for Barbra Streisand, though.)

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Re: Doxxipedia: The Publication of Living People’s Private Home Addresses

Unread post by Kraken » Sat Apr 06, 2024 9:38 pm

Reminds me of a Chris Rock bit.

Rich: Has home with Wikipedia notable address

Wealthy: Has home with no publicly verifiable address
No thank you Turkish, I'm sweet enough.