Alleged rape of a 9 year-old girl

[Giraffe Stapler]

A discussion got started at the BLP noticeboard about whether or not to include the name of the accused in 2022 pregnancy of a 10-year-old in Ohio (T-H-L). It got a bit silly when some people argued that not only can't you include the name of the alleged rapist, but it should not appear in URLs for sources used in the article.

Then it got really silly when Elizium23 (T-C-L) objected to the use of the word rape because, they claimed, it wasn't clear that the then 9 year-old had been raped. When it was pointed out that a 9 year-old cannot legally consent to sex and having sex with a 9 year-old is considered to be rape in Ohio, Elizium23 had an interesting answer:

She could have undergone artificial insemination, in or out of a clinical setting. It's telling that you are here assuming she had sex when you should know that is not necessary to become pregnant. So you're making several leaps of logic and you're assuming events you aren't privy to.

Now it's unfortunate that the evidence of the crime has been destroyed and left in another state. I hope law enforcement held on to some DNA samples; moreover, I hope her child's baby's remains get a dignified burial and some human respect. This is one travesty on top of another and there is more than one criminal in the case who will escape justice. Elizium23 (talk) 06:16, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

All of this will be a moot point soon enough, since the trial of the alleged rapist starts later this month and there doesn't seem to be a lot of dispute about the facts, but it is always interesting to see how far some people will go to make sure their particular POV wins.

[nableezy]

Then it got really silly when Elizium23 (T-C-L) objected to the use of the word rape because, they claimed, it wasn't clear that the then 9 year-old had been raped. When it was pointed out that a 9 year-old cannot legally consent to sex and having sex with a 9 year-old is considered to be rape in Ohio, Elizium23 had an interesting answer:

She could have undergone artificial insemination, in or out of a clinical setting. It's telling that you are here assuming she had sex when you should know that is not necessary to become pregnant. So you're making several leaps of logic and you're assuming events you aren't privy to.

Now it's unfortunate that the evidence of the crime has been destroyed and left in another state. I hope law enforcement held on to some DNA samples; moreover, I hope her child's baby's remains get a dignified burial and some human respect. This is one travesty on top of another and there is more than one criminal in the case who will escape justice. Elizium23 (talk) 06:16, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

It takes a special kind of faith to see the abortion as the real crime here. jfc.

[Beeblebrox]

I've run into a similar issue with an article I wrote, Disappearance of Anesha Murnane (T-H-L). I have a multitude of sources identifying the suspect, but it is verboten to say his name on en.wp, even to say he is a suspect who has been charged but not convicted. The article will have to sit there without his name in it for possibly several years while waiting for this to go to trial. I understand the argument to not include it, but I don't agree with it. The whole thing of WP is that it is supposed to be based on what the sources say, and the sources say this guy is charged with kidnapping, torturing, and murdering a mentally handicapped woman.

[Giraffe Stapler]

The alleged rape discussion has spilled over into an existing ANI thread about Elizium23 (T-C-L) started by a quickly blocked user and sock of, uh, (picks name from hat) someone.

Elizium23 has now been blocked, probably not so much for either comment mentioned in that thread, but for years of being a POV-pushing hyper-Catholic zealot. I have to say, the service on Wikipedia is definitely faster in 2023.

[tarantino]

@Elizium23
Organizing ruckuses, according to the call of @pontifex_ln, since 1972. The Roman Catholic Diocese of Phoenix

Abortion, contraception, and sterilization are not "health care". Health care treats DISEASE. Fertility and pregnancy are not diseases.

“Robert is a joy to work with – his organized, thoughtful and kind ways make him a real hit as a Catholic Charities’ team member!”

[Vigilant]

@Elizium23
Organizing ruckuses, according to the call of @pontifex_ln, since 1972. The Roman Catholic Diocese of Phoenix

Abortion, contraception, and sterilization are not "health care". Health care treats DISEASE. Fertility and pregnancy are not diseases.

“Robert is a joy to work with – his organized, thoughtful and kind ways make him a real hit as a Catholic Charities’ team member!”

Shades of John Lambert and Ottava Rima (Jeffrey Peters).

[casualdejekyll]

At least, from the AN/I Thread, it appears almost everyone agrees this was way off base and Elizium23 has received their indef before they could manage to spin themselves as an unblockable.

Shades of John Lambert and Ottava Rima (Jeffrey Peters).

50 Shades of John Lambert..... it couldn't be worse than Twilight, could it?

[Vigilant]

At least, from the AN/I Thread, it appears almost everyone agrees this was way off base and Elizium23 has received their indef before they could manage to spin themselves as an unblockable.

Shades of John Lambert and Ottava Rima (Jeffrey Peters).

50 Shades of John Lambert..... it couldn't be worse than Twilight, could it?

That sounds like kink shaming...

[Midsize Jake]

The article will have to sit there without his name in it for possibly several years while waiting for this to go to trial. I understand the argument to not include it, but I don't agree with it. The whole thing of WP is that it is supposed to be based on what the sources say, and the sources say this guy is charged with kidnapping, torturing, and murdering a mentally handicapped woman.

Maybe you could say that since each specific case is different, at least potentially, then there might be cases where it would be acceptable/appropriate to include the name of the alleged perpetrator prior to conviction. But the real problem here (and I hope this is what you mean when you say you understand the argument not to include it) is that the Wikipedia article will nearly always outrank the source(s) in search engine placement, even if the article title doesn't include the alleged perp's name. But unlike those sources, the Wikipedia article is seen by many (most?) readers as definitive, because it's designed to appear that way, even though the contributors are mostly anonymous and unaccountable. Attribution is often unclear and difficult to determine. That's why they should keep the names out, at least by default, if not by rule.

I probably wouldn't like it either, especially if I had a personal interest or stake in the case on behalf of the deceased. But the fault (if it can be called that) lies with Google. Wikipedia is both victim and beneficiary in situations like this, and while the grumbling is understandable, these folks are actually doing the right thing.

[casualdejekyll]

That sounds like kink shaming...

Oh, great, now we're on THAT kind of "criticism forum" too.

[Black Kite]

Meanwhile, in that same BLP/N thread, Masem is tying himself in knots trying to defend the word "alleged".

I used to think Masem was the voice of reason; I've changed my mind significantly over the last year or two.

[thekohser]

I have to say, the service on Wikipedia is definitely faster in 2023.

Yep, they figured out he's a nut-case after only 60,000 edits and eight years of tolerating his presence.

[Anroth]

Meanwhile, in that same BLP/N thread, Masem is tying himself in knots trying to defend the word "alleged".

I used to think Masem was the voice of reason; I've changed my mind significantly over the last year or two.

There has been a significant shift towards what I like to call "Atsme bullshittery".

[Scorpions13256]

Has Elizium23 always been this bad? I have only been familiar with him for the past year. A few days ago, I was planning on telling him to take a Wikibreak because I didn't think he was being rational. Looking at his talk page for the past year, I see nothing but the behavior I'd usually expect from newbies that get blocked after a few weeks.

[ScotFinnRadish]

The alleged rape thing isn't even the worst issue this article had. It originally had an infobox listing the girl as a participant, and the outcome listed as abortion. Fucking horrible. Here's the BLPN thread from that time.

[Giraffe Stapler]

Has Elizium23 always been this bad? I have only been familiar with him for the past year. A few days ago, I was planning on telling him to take a Wikibreak because I didn't think he was being rational. Looking at his talk page for the past year, I see nothing but the behavior I'd usually expect from newbies that get blocked after a few weeks.

I can't say if he's always been quite that blatantly awful, but he's always been a zealot.

When's the last time you saw an ANI thread started by an obvious (and quite rude) sock kept open after the sock was blocked? Elizium23 had worn out his welcome.

[Catfish Jim & spd]

The alleged rape thing isn't even the worst issue this article had. It originally had an infobox listing the girl as a participant, and the outcome listed as abortion. Fucking horrible. Here's the BLPN thread from that time.

The earliest version of the article as drafted by Jax 0677 was beyond the pale... link

[Giraffe Stapler]

The article's title is misleading. A 9 year-old girls being raped is not a notable crime in itself. A 9 year-old getting pregnant is somewhat less common but hardly unique. All politics aside, isn't this story really about the circumstances of the girl's abortion?

[ScotFinnRadish]

The article's title is misleading. A 9 year-old girls being raped is not a notable crime in itself. A 9 year-old getting pregnant is somewhat less common but hardly unique. All politics aside, isn't this story really about the circumstances of the girl's abortion?

It should really just be a mention in Abortion in Ohio or something like that. Not every horrible thing that the news reports and politicians leverage needs a full article.

[ArmasRebane]

The article's title is misleading. A 9 year-old girls being raped is not a notable crime in itself. A 9 year-old getting pregnant is somewhat less common but hardly unique. All politics aside, isn't this story really about the circumstances of the girl's abortion?

It should really just be a mention in Abortion in Ohio or something like that. Not every horrible thing that the news reports and politicians leverage needs a full article.

Yep. It's noteworthy in the context of the wider abortion debate in the US, but there's no reason it should be its own article. I cannot imagine in ten years time there's going to be continued coverage of this in a significant way (unfortunately, there's likely going to be other desperate cases that steal the headlines.)

[Scorpions13256]

This case reminds me of that American woman who traveled to Sweden in 1962 for an abortion after taking Thalidomide. I'm fairly certain that this case passes the 10-year test.

[The Garbage Scow]

Has Elizium23 always been this bad? I have only been familiar with him for the past year. A few days ago, I was planning on telling him to take a Wikibreak because I didn't think he was being rational. Looking at his talk page for the past year, I see nothing but the behavior I'd usually expect from newbies that get blocked after a few weeks.

I was half expecting him to argue "but what if the girl 'wanted it'".

[Catfish Jim & spd]

The alleged rape thing isn't even the worst issue this article had. It originally had an infobox listing the girl as a participant, and the outcome listed as abortion. Fucking horrible. Here's the BLPN thread from that time.

The earliest version of the article as drafted by Jax 0677 was beyond the pale... link

And why is he now trying to shut down discussion?

[Hemiauchenia]

This case reminds me of that American woman who traveled to Sweden in 1962 for an abortion after taking Thalidomide. I'm fairly certain that this case passes the 10-year test.

That would be Sherri Chessen (T-H-L), I agree that case looks pretty notable.

[el84]

The alleged rape thing isn't even the worst issue this article had. It originally had an infobox listing the girl as a participant, and the outcome listed as abortion. Fucking horrible. Here's the BLPN thread from that time.

The earliest version of the article as drafted by Jax 0677 was beyond the pale... link

And why is he now trying to shut down discussion?

They're now screaming everywhere they can for the suspect's name to be exonerated from the records. Seems like they may have a COI...

[Boing! said Zebedee]

They're now screaming everywhere they can for the suspect's name to be exonerated from the records. Seems like they may have a COI...

Considering that early version they created consisted of the following, I wouldn't be at all surprised...

The 2022 Ohio sexual assault case is an event in Columbus, Ohio in which a ten year old woman was allegedly forced upon and impregnated by an adult male.[1] The woman traveled to Indiana to get an abortion, because doing do was illegal in Ohio.[2]

A "ten year old woman"?! And "allegedly forced upon and impregnated" rather that raped?! Piece of slime.

[Midsize Jake]

They're now screaming everywhere they can for the suspect's name to be exonerated from the records. Seems like they may have a COI...

Considering that early version they created consisted of the following, I wouldn't be at all surprised...

Considering that the real issue involved here is abortion, I'm not sure the Wikipedia version of the "COI" concept even applies here. Sure, he might be a paid advocate/activist/provocateur, but there are so many unpaid people who could be described as such, who aren't affiliated with any organized group, I doubt it would make much difference if he were being paid.

Regardless, User:Jax 0677 (T-C-L) could conceivably be doing this as some form of "BLP absolutism," in which case I (for one) wouldn't criticize him for it, as onerous as it may seem in this particular case. Maybe one of us could spend a few minutes looking through his (admittedly lengthy) contribution history and see if there's some other motive — has he ever behaved as if he were a "Men's Rights" advocate, or one of these people who wants to lower the age of consent to 12 or something? I'd be surprised if we found anything like that, but one way or the other, that would be better than just darkly hinting that he "has a COI" without even specifying the nature of the COI.

[Boing! said Zebedee]

They're now screaming everywhere they can for the suspect's name to be exonerated from the records. Seems like they may have a COI...

Considering that early version they created consisted of the following, I wouldn't be at all surprised...

Considering that the real issue involved here is abortion, I'm not sure the Wikipedia version of the "COI" concept even applies here. Sure, he might be a paid advocate/activist/provocateur, but there are so many unpaid people who could be described as such, who aren't affiliated with any organized group, I doubt it would make much difference if he were being paid.

Regardless, User:Jax 0677 (T-C-L) could conceivably be doing this as some form of "BLP absolutism," in which case I (for one) wouldn't criticize him for it, as onerous as it may seem in this particular case. Maybe one of us could spend a few minutes looking through his (admittedly lengthy) contribution history and see if there's some other motive — has he ever behaved as if he were a "Men's Rights" advocate, or one of these people who wants to lower the age of consent to 12 or something? I'd be surprised if we found anything like that, but one way or the other, that would be better than just darkly hinting that he "has a COI" without even specifying the nature of the COI.

Fair points. I just have trouble seeing good faith in anyone who describes a child rape victim as a "10 year old woman".

[Hemiauchenia]

They're now screaming everywhere they can for the suspect's name to be exonerated from the records. Seems like they may have a COI...

Considering that early version they created consisted of the following, I wouldn't be at all surprised...

Considering that the real issue involved here is abortion, I'm not sure the Wikipedia version of the "COI" concept even applies here. Sure, he might be a paid advocate/activist/provocateur, but there are so many unpaid people who could be described as such, who aren't affiliated with any organized group, I doubt it would make much difference if he were being paid.

Regardless, User:Jax 0677 (T-C-L) could conceivably be doing this as some form of "BLP absolutism," in which case I (for one) wouldn't criticize him for it, as onerous as it may seem in this particular case. Maybe one of us could spend a few minutes looking through his (admittedly lengthy) contribution history and see if there's some other motive — has he ever behaved as if he were a "Men's Rights" advocate, or one of these people who wants to lower the age of consent to 12 or something? I'd be surprised if we found anything like that, but one way or the other, that would be better than just darkly hinting that he "has a COI" without even specifying the nature of the COI.

He was really pushing hard back in April 2021 to move the article title to "Death of George Floyd", which at that time was titled "Killing of George Floyd":

Strong support - "Death" is a more neutral word than "killing", the latter of which can imply action to end the life of another. There is speculation that Floyd died in part due to underlying medical conditions. --Jax 0677 (talk) 15:33, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... 1015787480

Of course, that move req went nowhere and the article is now titled Murder of George Floyd (T-H-L)

[AndyTheGrump]

Looking at Jax 0677's contribution history, and in particular at the large number of subsequently-deleted articles they've been responsible for (link), I'm inclined to think this is more chronic lack of clue than any sort of CoI. Jax clearly feels the need to write about things just for the sake of it, and doesn't let ignorance get in the way.

[The Blue Newt]

Looking at Jax 0677's contribution history, and in particular at the large number of subsequently-deleted articles they've been responsible for (link), I'm inclined to think this is more chronic lack of clue than any sort of CoI. Jax clearly feels the need to write about things just for the sake of it, and doesn't let ignorance get in the way.

There has to be one a them barnwhositzes for that.

[Vigilant]

Looking at Jax 0677's contribution history, and in particular at the large number of subsequently-deleted articles they've been responsible for (link), I'm inclined to think this is more chronic lack of clue than any sort of CoI. Jax clearly feels the need to write about things just for the sake of it, and doesn't let ignorance get in the way.

There has to be one a them barnwhositzes for that.

[Atsme]

Meanwhile, in that same BLP/N thread, Masem is tying himself in knots trying to defend the word "alleged".

I used to think Masem was the voice of reason; I've changed my mind significantly over the last year or two.

There has been a significant shift towards what I like to call "Atsme bullshittery".

Oh, really? And what in your mind is bullshittery?

[Randy from Boise]

Meanwhile, in that same BLP/N thread, Masem is tying himself in knots trying to defend the word "alleged".

I used to think Masem was the voice of reason; I've changed my mind significantly over the last year or two.

There has been a significant shift towards what I like to call "Atsme bullshittery".

Oh, really? And what in your mind is bullshittery?

I was also puzzled by the term.

I continue to see Masem as one of the content Good Guys.

t

[Anroth]

Meanwhile, in that same BLP/N thread, Masem is tying himself in knots trying to defend the word "alleged".

I used to think Masem was the voice of reason; I've changed my mind significantly over the last year or two.

There has been a significant shift towards what I like to call "Atsme bullshittery".

Oh, really? And what in your mind is bullshittery?

I was also puzzled by the term.

I continue to see Masem as one of the content Good Guys.

t

So for a long time Masem was mostly active in a few non controversial topic areas, places where things like low-profile sources (e.g. niche magazines, single topic web sources etc) are generally permitted, because rarely is the content controversial.

The problems came when he transitioned to working on topics with high controversy, things like US politics, fringe science, right-wing BLPs etc and found that his usual sourcing practices ran smack into editors who apply the sourcing/BLP/reliability policies/guidelines as they are written and meant to be used.

Which is a problem, because like Atsme he often wants to either minimise or whitewash right-wing, far-right and other assorted crank articles. And he has the same problem as Atsme and every other conservative editor in that the party and politics they support (in the US at least) are generally very easy to source criticism for from reliable sources, and difficult to counter, because conservative sources are generally full of bullshit. See fox news, daily mail etc.

So there has been a marked change in his tactics over the past year or so. Essentially he follows the Atsme playbook of trying to attack/distort the policies themselves to convince others they say/mean something other than what they say, or that they don't apply, or that they apply when they don't.

It doesn't work very well, because there is a substantial editor pool willing to say "you are wrong" and for the most part the policies themselves are quite clear. Atsme has been doing it for years though and regularly gets slapped down at RSN/BLPN etc. Masem is quite a bit more intelligent though, so they might give up that route sooner rather than later.

The latest argument of trying to claim that a rape victim, who almost all reliable sourcing describes as being raped, who lives in a state where under the age of consent the offense is rape, can't be described as having been raped because a court hasn't said so does approach Atsme's level of stupidity though.

(Even in death cases, where often the cause of death does have to await a formal coroner/etc declaration, it doesn't stop the news from saying someone has been murdered when they are found face down with 5 knives stuck in their back..)

[Atsme]

Meanwhile, in that same BLP/N thread, Masem is tying himself in knots trying to defend the word "alleged".

I used to think Masem was the voice of reason; I've changed my mind significantly over the last year or two.

There has been a significant shift towards what I like to call "Atsme bullshittery".

Oh, really? And what in your mind is bullshittery?

I was also puzzled by the term.

I continue to see Masem as one of the content Good Guys.

t

So for a long time Masem was mostly active in a few non controversial topic areas, places where things like low-profile sources (e.g. niche magazines, single topic web sources etc) are generally permitted, because rarely is the content controversial.

The problems came when he transitioned to working on topics with high controversy, things like US politics, fringe science, right-wing BLPs etc and found that his usual sourcing practices ran smack into editors who apply the sourcing/BLP/reliability policies/guidelines as they are written and meant to be used.

Which is a problem, because like Atsme he often wants to either minimise or whitewash right-wing, far-right and other assorted crank articles. And he has the same problem as Atsme and every other conservative editor in that the party and politics they support (in the US at least) are generally very easy to source criticism for from reliable sources, and difficult to counter, because conservative sources are generally full of bullshit. See fox news, daily mail etc.

So there has been a marked change in his tactics over the past year or so. Essentially he follows the Atsme playbook of trying to attack/distort the policies themselves to convince others they say/mean something other than what they say, or that they don't apply, or that they apply when they don't.

It doesn't work very well, because there is a substantial editor pool willing to say "you are wrong" and for the most part the policies themselves are quite clear. Atsme has been doing it for years though and regularly gets slapped down at RSN/BLPN etc. Masem is quite a bit more intelligent though, so they might give up that route sooner rather than later.

The latest argument of trying to claim that a rape victim, who almost all reliable sourcing describes as being raped, who lives in a state where under the age of consent the offense is rape, can't be described as having been raped because a court hasn't said so does approach Atsme's level of stupidity though.

(Even in death cases, where often the cause of death does have to await a formal coroner/etc declaration, it doesn't stop the news from saying someone has been murdered when they are found face down with 5 knives stuck in their back..)

The only way you could possibly insult my level of intelligence is to compare it with yours. “People who walk with nose in air very easy to hook.”

[Anroth]

Oh I don't think I am more intelligent than you. Well not just me. I think almost everyone is. And animals. Inanimate objects. Lichen. You make Donald Trump look like a Mensa member.

Also this is probably the wrong audience to unironically make jabs about being superior by quoting shitty fortune cookie proverbs. It kind of undermines your point.

[Midsize Jake]

Folks, don't be surprised if some of this gratuitous PvP stuff gets excised at some point, especially since this is a publicly-visible thread.

Do we have any diffs (or whatever) that illustrate the rule-manipulation (or misinterpretation) tactics that are being used in this case? Based on a "surface observation," I suspect most people would agree that while withholding the name is reasonable, insisting that a rape isn't a rape is not. They're going to need a really good rationale for something like that.

[Giraffe Stapler]

Do we have any diffs (or whatever) that illustrate the rule-manipulation (or misinterpretation) tactics that are being used in this case? Based on a "surface observation," I suspect most people would agree that while withholding the name is reasonable, insisting that a rape isn't a rape is not. They're going to need a really good rationale for something like that.

I think this is a dead issue now. The BLP noticeboard discussion was closed with a consensus that it is appropriate to call it rape and that the name of the accused should not appear in the article. Result!

[Catfish Jim & spd]

Do we have any diffs (or whatever) that illustrate the rule-manipulation (or misinterpretation) tactics that are being used in this case? Based on a "surface observation," I suspect most people would agree that while withholding the name is reasonable, insisting that a rape isn't a rape is not. They're going to need a really good rationale for something like that.

I think this is a dead issue now. The BLP noticeboard discussion was closed with a consensus that it is appropriate to call it rape and that the name of the accused should not appear in the article. Result!

My issue was the insistence that no urls that contain the suspect's name could be used even in discussion space. Overkill.

[Giraffe Stapler]

My issue was the insistence that no urls that contain the suspect's name could be used even in discussion space. Overkill.

I think most people thought it was overkill, too, but how much are you prepared to fight about it? I thought there was consensus about having the name in urls, but I guess not everyone sees it that way. Let the silliness continue.

[Catfish Jim & spd]

My issue was the insistence that no urls that contain the suspect's name could be used even in discussion space. Overkill.

I think most people thought it was overkill, too, but how much are you prepared to fight about it? I thought there was consensus about having the name in urls, but I guess not everyone sees it that way. Let the silliness continue.

Yeah, I don't care quite enough to make a huge deal of it.

[Mojito]

What's up with Jax 0677 (T-C-L)'s web of about 20 redirects for this (created from 28/12 to 13/1)? https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =&limit=50

[Konveyor Belt]

What's up with Jax 0677 (T-C-L)'s web of about 20 redirects for this (created from 28/12 to 13/1)? https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =&limit=50

These seem to be treading all over the line here with what they suggest due to ambiguous wording. "10-year-old rape victim forced to travel from Ohio to Indiana for abortion" sounds at first glance like the victim was forced by someone else to have the abortion. "2022 Ohio abortion of a 10-year old" sounds like a 10 year old was aborted, not that they had one. As these are highly implausible terms, the chances someone will actually come across them are low, but they do seem to be making some sort of point here.

[ScotFinnRadish]

My issue was the insistence that no urls that contain the suspect's name could be used even in discussion space. Overkill.

I think most people thought it was overkill, too, but how much are you prepared to fight about it? I thought there was consensus about having the name in urls, but I guess not everyone sees it that way. Let the silliness continue.

Yeah, I don't care quite enough to make a huge deal of it.

Seems to me more like a nice gesture to keep both sides of the issue placated. Kept the same information, removed the suspect's name in a url, didn't request a revdel. Seems equivalent to not cooking fish in the microwave at work.

[Giraffe Stapler]

What's up with Jax 0677 (T-C-L)'s web of about 20 redirects for this (created from 28/12 to 13/1)? https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =&limit=50

What's up with Jax 0677 putting an "image wanted" request on that article? What would that even be? A picture of the pregnant 10 year-old? A picture of the rapist? A picture of doctor who performed the abortion?

[Midsize Jake]

What would that even be? A picture of the pregnant 10 year-old? A picture of the rapist? A picture of doctor who performed the abortion?

[The Blue Newt]

What's up with Jax 0677 (T-C-L)'s web of about 20 redirects for this (created from 28/12 to 13/1)? https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =&limit=50

What's up with Jax 0677 putting an "image wanted" request on that article? What would that even be? A picture of the pregnant 10 year-old? A picture of the rapist? A picture of doctor who performed the abortion?

I betcha whossisname (Drainbooger (T-C-L)? Something like that.) over there could produce a preggers Wikipe-tan.

That’d go over big.

[ancientofmumoo]

What's up with Jax 0677 putting an "image wanted" request on that article? What would that even be? A picture of the pregnant 10 year-old? A picture of the rapist? A picture of doctor who performed the abortion?

Edit countoues. Usually end is an indef block.

[gentlegnome]

What's up with Jax 0677 (T-C-L)'s web of about 20 redirects for this (created from 28/12 to 13/1)? https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =&limit=50

Shades of Neelix.