WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2017 Arbcom Election Time!

JCM · Unread post by **JCM** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:58 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:
Alex Shih wrote:I am still quite surprised by the result. I have always firmly believed in "no big deal", hopefully I don't turn into a robot.
Good luck with it, Alex. Mind the case deadlines and don't be a dick.

best,

tim

I don't think turning into a robot will be the biggest problem. Maybe not coming to look down on other editors after seeing the antics worthy of the Geraldo Rivera Show is more likely.

Yes, I have raised that name before in a negative context. What can I say, other than maybe arbcomers think more highly of trolls and idiots than I do of Geraldo Rivera.

Poetlister · Unread post by **Poetlister** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:38 pm

Renée Bagslint wrote:In this case the data sets are not directly numerical, but rankings (orderings or permutations). Kendall's tau is a numerical measure of how different two rankings are, and Kendall also described how likely the various values of that measure were under various assumptions.

Sorry to be a pedant, but it's the other way around. Kendall's tau equals +1 if the rankings are identical and -1 if they are exactly reversed so that the top item in one ranking is the bottom item in the other. It is zero if the rankings are completely independent so the position in one list gives you no clue where it is in the other list.

Renée Bagslint · Unread post by **Renée Bagslint** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:14 pm

I agree with what you say about Kendall's tau, but don't quite see how you conclude that my quite informal description is "the other way round". It's numerical, and it measures the extent to which two ranking are different. What's the problem?

CrowsNest · Unread post by **CrowsNest** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:36 pm

Jimmy can't even he bothered to ceremonially appoint the new Arbs this year. He thinks, but can't quite remember, if this is what he's done the last couple of years. He doesn't even know if he has the "right" to even do this piffling trifle.

The devotees must be crying their little hearts out, daddy bear has definitely found other things to interest him these days.

He's still not afraid of trolling the fuck out of the less obedient children in the night garden, as he casually drops in the fact he would probably exercise his definite right to disband ArbCom against their or the community's wishes, if the WMF simply asked him to......

So here's hoping they make an absolute balls up of a case in the near future that has the WMF up in arms. Perhaps, say, by not banning outright an admin and OTRS agent who drove a truck through the ToU. Or by failing for the hundredth time to deal with bullying, harassment or the other general bullshit, like lightbulb salesmen saying they have the WMF derived right to block journalists on sight.

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:40 pm

Honestly, Jimbo moved on long ago and the only reason he does as much as he does now is to be able to keep doing speaking engagements. He really hasn't done anything of use in years and I doubt anyone can remember the last time he used his admin access without looking at the logs.

The fact is, if he did do something like that without the communities approval they would turn on him and he would find out he was about as popular as a Raggae band at a KKK rally...and he knows it.

Poetlister · Unread post by **Poetlister** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:24 pm

Renée Bagslint wrote:I agree with what you say about Kendall's tau, but don't quite see how you conclude that my quite informal description is "the other way round". It's numerical, and it measures the extent to which two ranking are different. What's the problem?

We're going off topic, but what I meant is that a measure of how different two things are should get higher as the two things become more different. However, with Kendall's tau the measure gets higher as the things become less different, reaching its greatest possible value of 1 when they are identical.

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:15 am

CrowsNest wrote:Jimmy can't even he bothered to ceremonially appoint the new Arbs this year. He thinks, but can't quite remember, if this is what he's done the last couple of years. He doesn't even know if he has the "right" to even do this piffling trifle.

The devotees must be crying their little hearts out, daddy bear has definitely found other things to interest him these days.

He's still not afraid of trolling the fuck out of the less obedient children in the night garden, as he casually drops in the fact he would probably exercise his definite right to disband ArbCom against their or the community's wishes, if the WMF simply asked him to......

JW is so full of himself that he can't keep track of his own actions or his latest round of bullshit.

To the best of my recollection, he has "ceremonially" appointed or recognized the election of every Arbcom up to now. And if he seriously thinks he has the right to nullify and disband an Arbcom and call for new elections, he's either posting on the piss or has slipped into serious delusion.

RfB

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:44 pm

I agree and the fact that this is the first Arbcom he has declined to actively participate in the appointments of it's members is, to me, is saying something about how he feels about this crop of arbs without him having to say anything.

Bezdomni · Unread post by **Bezdomni** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:34 pm

I have to say it looks like they're making it up as they go along. The disconnect between nice social behavior (like being neutral on people you don't know from Lilith) and pragmatic behavior (voting against anyone who is running against the candidates you think might actually do a good job) is fascinating.

This election (as announced by ArbCom) was won by "silent neutrality". Only KrakatoaKatie's supporters outnumbered the DGAF krew. Only the top four managed to break 35% support. Some no-BS analysis at genderdesk.

se pou sa katakroakatie'w m'inkyèt.

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:47 pm

Bezdomni wrote:I have to say it looks like they're making it up as they go along. The disconnect between nice social behavior (like being neutral on people you don't know from Lilith) and pragmatic behavior (voting against anyone who is running against the candidates you think might actually do a good job) is fascinating.

This election (as announced by ArbCom) was won by "silent neutrality". Only KrakatoaKatie's supporters outnumbered the DGAF krew. Only the top four managed to break 35% support. Some no-BS analysis at genderdesk.

The only things even remotely consistent with this Arbcom election is that with every new election the candidates are weaker, the support percentages are lower, the community requires more prodding to even bother with voting and the end result is that every successive Arbcom is worse than the last.

The genderdesk hit the nail on the head though. In any other place in the world the Arbcom would be failing but in Wikipedia they are the ones in charge. The WMF, the Arbcom and the Wikipedia community should be disgusted and disappointed.

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:13 pm

Kumioko wrote:I agree and the fact that this is the first Arbcom he has declined to actively participate in the appointments of it's members is, to me, is saying something about how he feels about this crop of arbs without him having to say anything.

Actually, his heart and mind is with WikiTribune at the moment, I will venture. This crop of candidates wasn't a deep one, but it's more or less a C-minus pool versus last year's C-plus. I don't think it's all that different.

RfB

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:38 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:
Kumioko wrote:I agree and the fact that this is the first Arbcom he has declined to actively participate in the appointments of it's members is, to me, is saying something about how he feels about this crop of arbs without him having to say anything.
Actually, his heart and mind is with WikiTribune at the moment, I will venture. This crop of candidates wasn't a deep one, but it's more or less a C-minus pool versus last year's C-plus. I don't think it's all that different.

RfB

Well since we have I think 4 that are or were on Arbcom in the past, 2 socks and a bunch of nobody's that in no way represents the real community, I would have to disagree. But then again I felt this same way over every group of arbs, so what do I know. I am hardly unbiased about my feelings towards the arbcom or generally speaking the people who would even want to be on the arbcom at all. It's a useless group made up of politicians and those who look down on editors and generally don't do much to actually improve the encyclopedia. It's mostly those who rule over the community deleting content, blocking adversaries, protecting the content they own and running off anyone who doesn't share their same views.

People don't get promoted to the arbcom to change things for the better, they are selected because they won't change anything.

CrowsNest · Unread post by **CrowsNest** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:18 am

The incremental change each year for the worse, for as long as I've watched, is that the panel is becoming more like the average entrenched community member. It is inexorably becoming a panel that doesn't much care a damn for policy, or even basic morality, if it conflicts with the dirty despicable conduct most regulars deem to be required to build and maintain Wikipedia. This is even reflected in the change in the sort of women of the panel this year, and of course in the fact they weren't able to numerically increase their representation.

The trend will continue for a while yet, since it seems likely for at least a few years there will always just barely be eight viable candidates for eight seats. The Rambling Man will never get in, but someone close to his level of fuckwittery will, most likely a defrocked admin, like Yvangdottir, a natural fit for the current direction of the quality and integrity of the female components of ArbCom. SmCandlish came within a whisker this year, that was no accident.

The (clue based) policy people, the people motivated to change Wikipedia's sick and twisted culture, the moralists, the people who rail against the very idea that simply writing a few shitty articles entitles you to anything, they're all jumping ship, presumably to either leave Wikipedia altogether, or focus their efforts where they can effect change. People like Tony Balloni, the people so thick they don't know how thick they are, they're the ArbCommers of the future. He'll likely be first name on the sheet for 2019.

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:42 am

CrowsNest wrote: The (clue based) policy people, the people motivated to change Wikipedia's sick and twisted culture, the moralists, the people who rail against the very idea that simply writing a few shitty articles entitles you to anything, they're all jumping ship, presumably to either leave Wikipedia altogether, or focus their efforts where they can effect change. People like Tony Balloni, the people so thick they don't know how thick they are, they're the ArbCommers of the future. He'll likely be first name on the sheet for 2019.

Go ahead and list a few and show us that you know what you're talking about.

As for Tony Balloni — that's probably an astute prediction.

RfB

CrowsNest · Unread post by **CrowsNest** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:56 am

The two departing women, plus maybe Kirill (not so up to speed on him), for a start. I doubt any of them will look back fondly on their time on the bench as well spent, but will be moving on to other areas to do what they presumably set out to do on ArbCom.

Kingsindian · Unread post by **Kingsindian** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:59 am

The simpler explanation is that they have already spent years on ArbCom and have had enough of it for the time being.

CrowsNest · Unread post by **CrowsNest** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:19 am

Kingsindian wrote:The simpler explanation is that they have already spent years on ArbCom and have had enough of it for the time being.

Or they got tired of being cast as somehow less capable or committed than utter spanners like Drmies?
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... .132.68.52

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:03 pm

Kingsindian wrote:The simpler explanation is that they have already spent years on ArbCom and have had enough of it for the time being.

This.

t

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:04 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:
Kingsindian wrote:The simpler explanation is that they have already spent years on ArbCom and have had enough of it for the time being.
This.

t

I kinda believe both sides. Personally I think GorillaWarfare is worthless as an arb. She rarely does anything other than just go with the flow. She frequently recuses herself and most of the work she does for the Arbcom is simple, quick comments. The most useful thing she ever did is give the WMF and the community the excuse that they voted a female into the committee.

Kirill used to be a fairly active character on Arbcom but he has become such a Wiki politician that his role in Arbcom is nothing more than resume fodder. He is on the committee, but doesn't do much other than fill a seat and cast the occasional vote. The Arbcom will not miss either of their participation nor will the community.

CrowsNest · Unread post by **CrowsNest** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:26 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:
Kingsindian wrote:The simpler explanation is that they have already spent years on ArbCom and have had enough of it for the time being.
This.

t

As explanations go, it doesn't make much sense.

Keilana was a new entrant in 2015, and is stepping down after just one term, which wasn't exactly a busy one. That's not normal turnover even in busier times, not that I recall anyway. She will definitely have reasons for leaving other than feeling a bit tired.

Kirill Lokshin is a career ArbCommer, serving three back to back terms from 2007 to 2013. If he has ever tired of it, he clearly got the break he was perhaps looking for by taking 2014-15 off, and his record doesn't suggest this relatively easy fourth term will have exhausted him too much. He has plenty of other stuff on his plate, suggesting he is hungry for ways to give of himself to the cause, so clearly it is more likely his departure is a case of prioritisation of his time, not mere tiredness. It speaks volumes that he has all the experience necessary by now to appreciate what he can and cannot achieve on the panel, and chooses now, in a period of absolute paucity of good candidates, to stand aside.

Being ready for some time off after years on the bench only really plausibly explains GorillaWarfare's decision, since she had served two back to back terms. But I put it to people that if she was just stepping down because she was tired, she would have simply said so. Her silence on her reasons seems pointed, and while she has always been an outspoken girl, she's probably learned by now that there's no reason to speak her mind on Wikipedia, if it doesn't achieve anything.

Her telling people she was stepping down because, for example, it is a complete joke for ArbCom to be putting people like The Rambling Man on a final warning, only to have the community ignore it, and even threaten and bully anyone who attempts to enforce it, including her, is an utter farce, seems like something the community would happily ignore. And now, the make up of the panel is even more favourable to those who think TRM is an asset to Wikipedia and want him to run free, like a bird.

Both Keilana and Gorilla Warfare would have seen from this year's slate well in advance of their decision to stand down, that at best the number of women was only going to remain static. And yet they still walked. You don't do that if you're just tired.

And I repeat, tired from that? The panel did virtually nothing these last two years. Easiest time for ArbCom since the early 2000s. There's more here to this, way more.

Kingsindian · Unread post by **Kingsindian** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:37 pm

CrowsNest wrote:Her silence on her reasons seems pointed

Unread post by **Midsize Jake** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:46 pm

If I understand this correctly, we're casting this as a choice between two explanations that are not at all mutually exclusive, no? A person can be tired of the workload and also fed up with the general lack of respect or support coming from the users - if anything, I would assume it's both in most, if not all, cases.

Another thing to consider (which I only mention as an interested observer) is that over time, people who get into disputes on Wikipedia - which is to say nearly everyone who makes substantive edits - have learned that you don't win by being clear, concise, and to-the-point. You win by trying to confuse the issue as much as possible, as persistently as you possibly can. (It's a lot like right-wing American politics in that respect.) Over time, that makes the ArbCom members' jobs a lot more tedious, time-consuming, and stressful, even if the actual cases themselves are less significant in terms of how Wikipedia operates.

By the same token, this kind of interaction also causes the most rational and level-headed Arbcom members to leave, which means the remaining members (not to mention users participating in disputes) are less rational and level-headed, at least on-average and over time. Less-rational people tend to be more demanding of praise and support, and much more averse to criticism, even of the fair variety.

So yeah, I would think it's both, and probably some other things too, some of which we don't know about. And none of it surprises me a bit, really.

CrowsNest · Unread post by **CrowsNest** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:53 pm

Being tired of the workload (but seeing it as worthwhile) is clearly mutually exclusive to being tired of arguing with idiots and seeing no real worth to your time being spent in the panel.

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:37 am

CN wrote:The panel did virtually nothing these last two years. Easiest time for ArbCom since the early 2000s.

The first Arbcom election was held in December 2004 [ link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... ember_2004[/link] ],with only 1 of 34 candidates getting more than half the vote, incidentally — so there was no "ArbCom in the early 2000s."

Early Arbcoms had a heavy, heavy case load, not a light one — so the recently completed 2 year terms are the lightest case load ever.

GW indicated she was burned out with the committee after her first term but was hanging in there for another term due to the anti-rudeness brigade mobilizing. Instead of Armageddon, we were treated to Mayberry RFD. Armageddon is more fun, I reckon. Why hang around for a second term of boredom?

I think that one-term-and-out is more common than Arbcommers running for reelection. And don't forget the significant percentage of people that don't even make it through one term but who resign ahead of their term expiring...

Nope, there was nothing unusual about the turnover of Arbs this time around. Very typical. The only surprise to me was that Kyrill didn't run again, because he is the essence of a bureaucrat's bureaucrat's bureaucrat...

RfB

CrowsNest · Unread post by **CrowsNest** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:11 pm

I never said the turnover was unusual, just the people leaving, and why. And I'm quite sure the early cases were easier than what it quickly would have become, by say 2007.

The recent Joefromrandb case shows it makes no sense for GW to feel like her work is done, even if she was bored.

Accept, though I'd encourage people to present somewhat broader context rather than focusing on the "fuck off" incident(s) during the rest of the case phases. There does seem to be enough here to warrant a case, but I'm hoping the case will amount to more than just pages of discussion about whether (and under what circumstances) it's okay to tell another person to fuck off on Wikipedia. GorillaWarfare (talk) 23:33, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

The case request was declined, and the reasons and people who did so made it pretty clear there is no point her sticking around, ArbCom is no longer about policy or providing clear leadership. It's for women like Opabina to lie her ass off in support of no higher purpose than her personal agenda, and for others to eat it up because they fear being voted out.

No idea why Lokshin rescued there, but would be amazed if he wouldn't have been in agreement with GW. Keilana wasn't around, so that tells me whatever she was doing must have been pretty important to miss out, or she saw the writing on the wall thanks to Opabina's lengthy intervention, and therefore realised the futility of getting involved to echo GW's thoughts. This thus supports the idea she stood down for the same reasons.

Outcomes like this don't cause burnout, rather they just make you feel disgusted at being associated by title with these sort of things. Arbs did indeed used to resign if they felt that way, but I'd imagine people like GW have figured out doing that is self-defeating and perhaps limits your ability to effect change at a later imagined date when people like Opabina are no longer in the majority.

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:10 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:
CN wrote:The panel did virtually nothing these last two years. Easiest time for ArbCom since the early 2000s.
The first Arbcom election was held in December 2004 [ link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... ember_2004[/link] ],with only 1 of 34 candidates getting more than half the vote, incidentally — so there was no "ArbCom in the early 2000s."

Early Arbcoms had a heavy, heavy case load, not a light one — so the recently completed 2 year terms are the lightest case load ever.

GW indicated she was burned out with the committee after her first term but was hanging in there for another term due to the anti-rudeness brigade mobilizing. Instead of Armageddon, we were treated to Mayberry RFD. Armageddon is more fun, I reckon. Why hang around for a second term of boredom?

I think that one-term-and-out is more common than Arbcommers running for reelection. And don't forget the significant percentage of people that don't even make it through one term but who resign ahead of their term expiring...

Nope, there was nothing unusual about the turnover of Arbs this time around. Very typical. The only surprise to me was that Kyrill didn't run again, because he is the essence of a bureaucrat's bureaucrat's bureaucrat...

RfB

P.S. Just checked to see if I was being too harsh on Kyrill. His "last 500 edits" page goes all the way back to September 2016 (!!!), so he's more or less not even pretending to do more than maintain the Military History project's newsletter at this point...

CrowsNest · Unread post by **CrowsNest** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:42 pm

That level of on-wiki activity used to be quite commonplace for Arbs. It was hopefully assumed they were spending their available Wikipedia time in off wiki deliberations, dealing with mail and generally being what they are supposed to be, a panel whose main benefit was in their ability to engage in deep analysis, which was in the main neither suitable or even interesting for the masses' consumption.

That of course went by the wayside as it has become fashionable to accuse people who have little on-wiki activity of being bone idle, incompetent, engaged in backroom plots or even heretics. And now we see the result, a panel where quite a few Arbs seem to actually prefer farting around in article space rather than do their damn jobs.

Boing! said Zebedee · Unread post by **Boing! said Zebedee** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:32 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:P.S. Just checked to see if I was being too harsh on Kyrill. His "last 500 edits" page goes all the way back to September 2016 (!!!), so he's more or less not even pretending to do more than maintain the Military History project's newsletter at this point...

"Absent from admin work for so long and then stomps back in to make a controversial block when people who have been contributing to the issue are still debating it? Just ahead of Arbcom elections? Self-serving opportunist? Spend the next year or two actively working in the admin area and I might support in the future, but not now."

Those were my words from the 2015 election.

Boing!

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:12 pm

Boing! said Zebedee wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:P.S. Just checked to see if I was being too harsh on Kyrill. His "last 500 edits" page goes all the way back to September 2016 (!!!), so he's more or less not even pretending to do more than maintain the Military History project's newsletter at this point...
"Absent from admin work for so long and then stomps back in to make a controversial block when people who have been contributing to the issue are still debating it? Just ahead of Arbcom elections? Self-serving opportunist? Spend the next year or two actively working in the admin area and I might support in the future, but not now."

Those were my words from the 2015 election.

Boing!

It's also notable to mention that the only reason Kirill ran for Arbcom the last time is because he felt he was better than the others that were running. He stated at the time, "With the Committee likely to experience significant turnover and loss of institutional memory as a result of this election, I believe there will be a need for experienced arbitrators in the coming year, and offer my services to the community once again."

Then he did almost nothing visible on wiki the entire time (although it's possible he worked behind the scenes).

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:27 am

Boing! said Zebedee wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:P.S. Just checked to see if I was being too harsh on Kyrill. His "last 500 edits" page goes all the way back to September 2016 (!!!), so he's more or less not even pretending to do more than maintain the Military History project's newsletter at this point...
"Absent from admin work for so long and then stomps back in to make a controversial block when people who have been contributing to the issue are still debating it? Just ahead of Arbcom elections? Self-serving opportunist? Spend the next year or two actively working in the admin area and I might support in the future, but not now."

Those were my words from the 2015 election.

Boing!

Here's my 2015 opinion...

Kirill Lokshin - We learned with the ill-considered return of Courcelles to ArbCom in the 2014 election that leopards do not change their spots. Kirill is one of the co-organizers of Wikiconference DC, which banned Greg Kohs from attending with no rationale, no evidence, no right of response, and no appeal. This is a manifestation of the sort of prejudiced behavior that should be avoided at all costs on ArbCom. Has barely been around En-WP in the past year, he's so busy busy busy with other WMF affairs... Oh, he did come back long enough make another Eric Corbett mess, good going there... At least he was self-righteous about it.

RfB

Kingsindian · Unread post by **Kingsindian** » Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:42 am

Since the Eric Corbett AE2 case was the first time I posted on WO, I remember it well. At the time there was a lot of noise about this issue. Gamaliel wrote an editorial in the Signpost about it. As I said then:

Kingsindian wrote:All four people who blocked Eric Corbett for the GGTF mess have been elected, and Gamaliel had also filed an AE request against him. I mentioned all 5 in my own statement on the PD talk page. Hawkeye and Kevin Gorman have been left out.

I predict AE3 will not end well for EC.

AE3 never happened: Corbett reduced his activity drastically.

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:48 am

Kingsindian wrote:Since the Eric Corbett AE2 case was the first time I posted on WO, I remember it well. At the time there was a lot of noise about this issue. Gamaliel wrote an editorial in the Signpost about it. As I said then:

Kingsindian wrote:All four people who blocked Eric Corbett for the GGTF mess have been elected, and Gamaliel had also filed an AE request against him. I mentioned all 5 in my own statement on the PD talk page. Hawkeye and Kevin Gorman have been left out.

I predict AE3 will not end well for EC.
AE3 never happened: Corbett reduced his activity drastically.

So did the GGTF...

RfB

CrowsNest · Unread post by **CrowsNest** » Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:15 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:
Boing! said Zebedee wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:P.S. Just checked to see if I was being too harsh on Kyrill. His "last 500 edits" page goes all the way back to September 2016 (!!!), so he's more or less not even pretending to do more than maintain the Military History project's newsletter at this point...
"Absent from admin work for so long and then stomps back in to make a controversial block when people who have been contributing to the issue are still debating it? Just ahead of Arbcom elections? Self-serving opportunist? Spend the next year or two actively working in the admin area and I might support in the future, but not now."

Those were my words from the 2015 election.

Boing!
Here's my 2015 opinion...

Kirill Lokshin - We learned with the ill-considered return of Courcelles to ArbCom in the 2014 election that leopards do not change their spots. Kirill is one of the co-organizers of Wikiconference DC, which banned Greg Kohs from attending with no rationale, no evidence, no right of response, and no appeal. This is a manifestation of the sort of prejudiced behavior that should be avoided at all costs on ArbCom. Has barely been around En-WP in the past year, he's so busy busy busy with other WMF affairs... Oh, he did come back long enough make another Eric Corbett mess, good going there... At least he was self-righteous about it.
RfB

There's no logic in electing Arbs who would handle situations of that nature any differently to how the WMF would, which in this situation, for sound legal reasons absolutely called for zero communication with anybody who didn't need to know, least of all the alleged victim. People who think changing the makeup of ArbCom is the means for expressing their discontent toward the WMF, are merely being fools to themselves. Wikipedians really should make peace with the idea that they're not free, they're certainly not equal, and they have no rights except the right to go away. They're the junior partners in a grand scheme of mass exploitation. Literally the only way they could influence how the WMF does anything, is by withdrawing their labour. And while a few sad individuals have tried going down this route, Eric included I suspect, it's not enough to do it piecemeal.

Renée Bagslint · Unread post by **Renée Bagslint** » Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:24 pm

I wonder if a General Strike by contributors would get traction (or media coverage). Better pay and benefits?

Poetlister · Unread post by **Poetlister** » Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:42 pm

Kumioko wrote:It's also notable to mention that the only reason Kirill ran for Arbcom the last time is because he felt he was better than the others that were running.

Was he any worse than the others?

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:30 pm

Poetlister wrote:
Kumioko wrote:It's also notable to mention that the only reason Kirill ran for Arbcom the last time is because he felt he was better than the others that were running.
Was he any worse than the others?

It depends on how you define worse. He was worse in the sense that he was largely a non player. He was also better than the others for exactly the same reasons.

CrowsNest · Unread post by **CrowsNest** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:22 am

A handy link for anyone wondering why it would be a bad thing to ever let The Rambling Man or SmCandlish anywhere near ArbCom, except perhaps as defendants. Totally, completely, temperamentally unfit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =817533962

No Ledge · Unread post by **No Ledge** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:15 am

Were those two involved in the major incident from 2006 that Brad refers to? I'm not familiar with that incident. If not, I don't get your point... why are you connecting those two to Brad's edit?

CrowsNest · Unread post by **CrowsNest** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:56 am

No Ledge wrote:Were those two involved in the major incident from 2006 that Brad refers to? I'm not familiar with that incident. If not, I don't get your point... why are you connecting those two to Brad's edit?

It's a permalink to the state of the page at that time, the fact Brad was last to edit the page has no relevance.

CrowsNest · Unread post by **CrowsNest** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:54 pm

Hilarious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... mbling_Man

Cowboy admin Ritchie333 just bitchslapped BU Rob13 for having apparently wasted everyone's time by filing a perfectly valid AE report against The Rambling Man, and so threw it out. The action is totally expected, and fits Richie's bullshit attitudes about good governance (there's literally no crime this twat isn't prepared to excuse, if it was committed by a 'content contributor').

But what made it all particularly hilarious, was how Ritchie justified himself to Rob. He gave him this most arrogant lecture, in which he tried to claim that doing things like that would be bad for new Arb Rob's image and standing, because it would make people think he really is an evil sock. Not that Ritchie thinks that, he's just making Rob aware of the gossip, just like people who never believe in gossip always do.

In a reflection of just how poor the candidates are these days, Rob has just accepted Ritchie's bullshit, like a meek little mouse. It couldn't be more obvious that Ritchie thinks he has more community respect and trust than Rob, even though it is Rob who has a larger democratic mandate, his 224 net support votes for ArbCom pissing all over Ritchie's 135 at RfA. Rob even pisses over that, having passed RfA with 149 net supports.

Wikipedia has collected a fair few admins like Ritchie now, who think they'd absolute smash the ArbCom election, and would be the best Arb ever, beloved by all True Wikipedians. They just always find excuses why they can't run. Ritchie's is of course that is too busy writing the encyclopedia. Except when he's bailing out scum like TRM of course. Handy to be an admin for that.

Also, reflecting the internal politics of Wikipedia, Black Kite congratulated The Rambling Man because it now means Rob has to recuse if (or rather when) The Rambling Man is dragged before ArbCom again. Black Kite is no fan of ArbCom, having been admonished by them before, for reasons not totally unrelated to Ritchie's intervention. Scum congratulating scum for having got one over on Wikipedia's scum patrol. Sooner or later they're going to realise what a huge mistake it was, granting admin powers for life.

CrowsNest · Unread post by **CrowsNest** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:54 pm

Great job Ritchie. The guy officially sanctioned against questioning people's general competence, is now doing stupid shit like this....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:The_ ... /Arb_watch

Now, we all now Wikipedia's definition of "encyclopedia" is fluid, but that don't look like no article to me......it does however look exactly like what a competent person would have predicted TRM would do, since he's been on a bit of a (t)roll for a few days now.

Seriously, 593 editors voted for this douche to be an Arb, as if he could remotely be the sort of person who has to deal with problem users. They can't all have been doing it for the lulz.

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:02 am

Good start of a write-up by TRM IMO but it's likely to land him in some hot water. It's likely the arbs are going to call it an attack page. More proof that Banned User Rob isn't suitable for Arb or admin really!

No Ledge · Unread post by **No Ledge** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:23 am

There's nothing hilarious about this. I find it all rather sad and depressing. Anyone laughing is a little off-balance.

You guys should quit casting aspersions without any evidence.

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:27 am

Kumioko wrote:Good start of a write-up by TRM IMO but it's likely to land him in some hot water. It's likely the arbs are going to call it an attack page. More proof that Banned User Rob isn't suitable for Arb or admin really!

I'll suggest to him that he might want to make ArbWatch a thread here rather than get beat up for trying to do it on-wiki.

RfB

CrowsNest · Unread post by **CrowsNest** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:11 pm

No Ledge wrote:There's nothing hilarious about this. I find it all rather sad and depressing. Anyone laughing is a little off-balance.

Come off it. Pitying these people is what is decidedly odd. As they never tire of reminding everyone, these two are grown adults, trusted in the real world with actually raising children. They're both making decisions and taking actions for which they should be prepared to accept responsibility for, the fact it happens on Wikipedia has no bearing. And while they often try to downplay the importance some of their bullshit by claiming it's only Wikipedia, they also often do the exact opposite, expecting everyone to buy into the maximal serious with which they're delivering their latest opinion. Wikipedia and the Wikipedians have in their wisdom decided that outside influences which seek to highlight these issues for what they are, are to be ignored as suppressive thought, so expressing your pity from outside the cage, as if they really can't help what they do, is decidedly more odd than just mocking them, in full confidence that they deserve it. To pity them, is to absolve them of any responsibility for their actions.

No Ledge · Unread post by **No Ledge** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:22 pm

I'm not pitying anyone; I don't know where you got that idea.

I'm saying it's sad to see two recent candidates for the respected Arbitration Committee in combat-preparation mode, battling in a war of words like Trump and Kim.

Arbitrators should have more sense of diplomacy, defusing tense situations, conflict avoidance, etc.

I've looked at this, but haven't done a deep dive to look at the roots.

Beeblebrox · Unread post by **Beeblebrox** » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:54 am

TRM is that espescially problematic type of user who can very, very abraisive, but tends to be in the right more often than not. He would be on the committee right now if he could manage to tone it down a little.

Alex Shih · Unread post by **Alex Shih** » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:32 am

TRM wouldn't be himself if he could tone it down; hasn't toned down since 2015 I think (other than that voluntary recall thread).

Casliber · Unread post by **Casliber** » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:48 am

CrowsNest wrote:And I repeat, tired from that? The panel did virtually nothing these last two years. Easiest time for ArbCom since the early 2000s. There's more here to this, way more.

(belated comment)

When you are on the committee there is always a steady stream of emails. Even when there is not much happening on wiki. Thankfully now not as many as in 2009 but still many that require thought and discussion.

JCM · Unread post by **JCM** » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:15 pm

Casliber wrote:When you are on the committee there is always a steady stream of emails. Even when there is not much happening on wiki. Thankfully now not as many as in 2009 but still many that require thought and discussion.

Vague, nonspecific details would be welcome as a lot of us outsiders have no clue what such emails would be about.