WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2017 Arbcom Election Time!

AndyTheGrump · Unread post by **AndyTheGrump** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:10 pm

A comparison of BU Rob13 with Technical 13 using the 'edit count' tool is interesting:

BU Rob13: https://xtools.wmflabs.org/ec/en.wikipedia.org/BU+Rob13
Technical 13: https://xtools.wmflabs.org/ec/en.wikipe ... chnical+13

They seem to share fairly similar editing habits timewise. Which is to say non-stop other than a break presumably to sleep. If they keep conventional hours, they are both based somewhere in the western hemisphere, but that doesn't tell us much. Perhaps more relevant is the broad spread of page edits, and in particular the emphasis on the background technical stuff that few contributors are likely to come across. BU Rob13 and Technical 13 certainly seem to share similar levels of expertise regarding module scripts:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... on=history
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... on=history

So are they the same person? I'd say it is suggestive, but hardly conclusive...

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:16 pm

Salvidrim wrote:
Tarc wrote:
Salvidrim wrote: Of course he was asked in the current election as well, but there's not much to see in in his answer
Not all that uncommon for people to cling to numerical fixations across identities, so...who was banned in June 2015, username ending in "13" ?
.... Holy shit.

Are you serious or just facetious? BU Rob13 was created 7-June-2015 in the middle of Technical13's ArbCom-evading Wikibreak, before he came back and starting defending himself with claims of being in talks with WMF and such, and then was ArbComBanned by motion. If you have any other evidence and this is a serious allegation it may well be worth investigating but I can't imagine nobody might have tried to look into this already.....

Detective-Sargeant Tarkenstein wrote:At the moment I'd place it in the "educated/reasonable conjecture" category. The two accounts are very deep into automation, bots, template intricacies, etc... I'm a bit wrapped up atm (I am, not regrettably, still an MMORPG nerd and we're raiding atm, short break), but I'll put these up for perusal

BU Rob 13, 8 June 15 - 19 June 15
Technical 13, 25 May 15 - 19 May 15

Squeaky-new Rob13 is in a flurry from June 8-13.

Technical 13 notified Doug Weller he has mail on 29 May, inactive til 11 June when he drops User:Technical 13/Drafts/Response (T-H-L), obv initially written off-wiki, small updates over 6 hours.

This editing is in tandem, but is largely minor number updates on one hand, and Twinkle stuff on the other. Would not be difficult to do side-by-side. After that, in the last few days of T13s activity, the edits of both ebb and flow as the focus on one account takes away from the other.

I have no axe to grind against either, I don't recall any interaction between myself and Technical13, just poked around in some old discussions and he stuck out in an odd way. Rob is certainly some departed user, and this was the first of the narrowed possibilities that I went "hmmm".

There's people here that are far better at this sort of thing than I, so if this is enough of a starting point, have at it.

Derp duh derp derp derp...

Derpity derp? Duh derp derp derp...

We probably have a winner.

RfB

No Ledge · Unread post by **No Ledge** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:05 pm

You guys are crazy. Technical 13 was a technical wannabe. He demonstrated no where near the competence that Rob has. Almost polar opposites.

My biggest reservation with Rob is the way he hounded the check-wiki bot operators off the project, or to the sidelines of the project. Were T13 still here, Rob might have gone after him too.

T13's identity is known, he lives or lived in Maine. Rob says he has met Wikipedians in Seattle, so it shouldn't be difficult to find someone to confirm that they are two different people.

Rob also has some strong ideas about copyright. When he takes a position he doesn't easily back down when others disagree. If there's another editor I'd liken him to, it would be Fram.

He won't be a wallflower on the committee. He will be right up there with Brad and Opabinia in taking a leadership position. I'm still not convinced the guy is a sock. Very, very few people are as smart and have the technical competence this guy has, so the pool of potential returning banned editors would be a very short list.

MrErnie · Unread post by **MrErnie** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:21 pm

Rob's answer to DoRD's question during his RFA is interesting:

Optional question from DoRD
23. In your opinion, was the use of CheckUser justified with respect to question 9? Why or why not?
A: Absolutely. The account made roughly ten swift edits upon first registering and then came back a little over four days later with Twinkle enabled. That makes it very clear he was attempting to gain autoconfirmed status, which is a strong indication that the editor has had a previous account. His edits to project space are an illegitimate use of alternative accounts as per WP:ILLEGIT, so the check was more than justified.

I also agree that Rob will likely be one of the more visible and active committee members.

Unread post by **tarantino** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:58 pm

Technical_13 has his photo on his ddowiki user page. BU_Rob13 was at wikimania 2017, so he's probably in a photo on commons.

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:42 pm

tarantino wrote:Technical_13 has his photo on his ddowiki user page. BU_Rob13 was at wikimania 2017, so he's probably in a photo on commons.

For what it's worth BU Rob also lives in the Seattle area and has attended some meetups there as well. So determining his likeness to T13 (or some other editor) could be in some photos for that as well.

Having said that I am not 100% convinced this is T13 because there are too many differences. What I think is that BU Rob had a previous account and poked around and learned the ropes, maybe got in some hot water and may or may not have been banned. Then, let that account go stale and created the new BU Rob one as a clean slate with all these "skillz". He frequently talks about incidents and decisions that are years old as if he was here for them, gives himself credit with "experience" in various areas far beyond the time he has been editing, etc.. So, regardless of the previous account, there is absolutely zero chance this is his first account and since he has so far denied it (thereby hiding it) he should not even be an admin let alone be an arb.

No Ledge · Unread post by **No Ledge** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:52 pm

tarantino wrote:BU_Rob13 was at wikimania 2017, so he's probably in a photo on commons.

Really? On July 20 he said he wouldn't be there.

Unread post by **tarantino** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:24 pm

No Ledge wrote:
tarantino wrote:BU_Rob13 was at wikimania 2017, so he's probably in a photo on commons.
Really? On July 20 he said he wouldn't be there.

Oh, you're right.

No Ledge · Unread post by **No Ledge** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:33 pm

His lightning talk on OTRS outreach was delivered by someone else, if it went off as planned.

Another concern of mine is his withdrawal from OTRS, over his differences in interpretation of copyright rules. Is he right, or just bullheaded? I'm not sure.

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:47 pm

No Ledge wrote:His lightning talk on OTRS outreach was delivered by someone else, if it went off as planned.

Another concern of mine is his withdrawal from OTRS, over his differences in interpretation of copyright rules. Is he right, or just bullheaded? I'm not sure.

In fairness I would say probably a bit of both. He's certainly smart (so was T13) and he might be right about some of the copyright rules but OTRS is ruled by a few and is frequently cliquish so if he wasn't well established with the clique before he started to establish his own rules then they would have thrown him out anyway.

Poetlister · Unread post by **Poetlister** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:23 pm

I'd say people have been banned on evidence no stronger than has been adduced here.

Tarc · Unread post by **Tarc** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:57 pm

Poetlister wrote:I'd say people have been banned on evidence no stronger than has been adduced here.

Quite true, if 10% of the effort put in today is put into any WP:Duck block, I'd be surprised.

Are we at least certain that reddit user "StukaLied" is BU Rob 13? BU Rob13's RFA-- Is this really his first account? ?

Unread post by **tarantino** » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:35 am

Tarc wrote:
Poetlister wrote:I'd say people have been banned on evidence no stronger than has been adduced here.
Quite true, if 10% of the effort put in today is put into any WP:Duck block, I'd be surprised.

Are we at least certain that reddit user "StukaLied" is BU Rob 13? BU Rob13's RFA-- Is this really his first account? ?

BU Rob13 had an account on reddit with the same name. He deleted it after he became an admin, though. BU stands for Binghamton University.

Bezdomni · Unread post by **Bezdomni** » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:16 am

Why do I keep seeing upstate NY and SUNY pop up lately? & why would BU stand for Binghamton again? Curious... there does seem to be a certain upstate NY WP culture... Syracuse and Binghamton Railroad (T-H-L)... §

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:57 am

Bezdomni wrote:Why do I keep seeing upstate NY and SUNY pop up lately? & why would BU stand for Binghamton again? Curious... there does seem to be a certain upstate NY WP culture... Syracuse and Binghamton Railroad (T-H-L)... §

I prefer to think the BU stands for "Banned User" :-)

Jim · Unread post by **Jim** » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:36 am

I'm 99.99% certain that BU Rob is not T13. He exhibits none of the Mr Bean like tendencies that make T13 so tear jerkingly entertaining. He's certainly a hat collecting sock of someone, and I opposed him.
If anyone wants to know where T13 went, they might have more fun looking at Pppery (T-C-L).

MrErnie · Unread post by **MrErnie** » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:52 pm

Quite true, if 10% of the effort put in today is put into any WP:Duck block, I'd be surprised.

Are we at least certain that reddit user "StukaLied" is BU Rob 13? BU Rob13's RFA-- Is this really his first account? ?

I would be shocked if Rob was StukaLied. Tarc it looks like in your link that Stuka is quoting something Rob said. Stuka was active in the early days of WikiInAction, and wrote frequently about the gamergate characters. Stuka was also experienced and knowledgeable about Wiki history, so that would mean Rob has been around for a lot longer than he lets on. I’ve always thought Stuka was TDA.

Kingsindian · Unread post by **Kingsindian** » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:20 pm

Why would StukaLied be BURob13? Makes no sense at all.

Btw, I don't think StukaLied is TDA either (this determination was made using my finely honed linguistic skills).

No Ledge · Unread post by **No Ledge** » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:41 pm

StukaLied just copy-pasted Rob's answer to Newyorkbrad (T-C-L)'s question for the candidate in Rob's June 2016 request for adminship.

The cynicism (and nasty edit summary) of the one opposer so far are unfortunate, but I'd like you to have an opportunity to address his concern without being accused of "badgering." Please feel free to do so here.

For your convenience, I've supplied a hyperlink to show that edit summary. Brad had the discretion not to do that.

My support rationale in that RfA was: Looks to me like thirteen is our lucky number this time. The oppose section isn't resonating with me at all; your "résumé" is credible to me.

As to whether T13 is back editing, I agree that's ppposible.

Volunteer Marek · Unread post by **Volunteer Marek** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:58 am

MrErnie wrote:

Quite true, if 10% of the effort put in today is put into any WP:Duck block, I'd be surprised.

Are we at least certain that reddit user "StukaLied" is BU Rob 13? BU Rob13's RFA-- Is this really his first account? ?
I would be shocked if Rob was StukaLied. Tarc it looks like in your link that Stuka is quoting something Rob said. Stuka was active in the early days of WikiInAction, and wrote frequently about the gamergate characters. Stuka was also experienced and knowledgeable about Wiki history, so that would mean Rob has been around for a lot longer than he lets on. I’ve always thought Stuka was TDA.

TDA makes more sense since they share a similar world view - pro-Trump, alt-right, Gamergate, "men's rights" crap. But the thing is, those views tend to highly correlate with one another so there's tons of people who would fit the bill. And one notable difference between the two is that StukaLied is capable of self control and can be more reserved. Some of their posts are simply links, or quotes, with no commentary. TDA on the other hand can't help but go on and on and on, usually with hyperbolic exaggerated language about how someone somewhere is being mean to him. And he's incapable of letting things drop. StukaLied can. Basically SL is somewhat more intelligent than TDA. So not the same person.

Volunteer Marek · Unread post by **Volunteer Marek** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:38 am

And oh yeah, getting back to original topic, the only part of my vote that I'll divulge is that I voted for Opabinia. Mostly because that CrowsNest fellah was so down on her, and since pretty much everything else he said was so damn wrong, I figure she must be pretty good.

This also illustrates why it's sometimes good to keep your opinions to yourself and why I'm not gonna announce my other votes.

Tarc · Unread post by **Tarc** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:10 pm

MrErnie wrote:

Quite true, if 10% of the effort put in today is put into any WP:Duck block, I'd be surprised.

Are we at least certain that reddit user "StukaLied" is BU Rob 13? BU Rob13's RFA-- Is this really his first account? ?
I would be shocked if Rob was StukaLied. Tarc it looks like in your link that Stuka is quoting something Rob said. Stuka was active in the early days of WikiInAction, and wrote frequently about the gamergate characters. Stuka was also experienced and knowledgeable about Wiki history, so that would mean Rob has been around for a lot longer than he lets on. I’ve always thought Stuka was TDA.

I took the "I"s to mean it was him saying it there in the reddit post, but you could be right.

MrErnie · Unread post by **MrErnie** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:30 pm

Tarc wrote:
MrErnie wrote:

Quite true, if 10% of the effort put in today is put into any WP:Duck block, I'd be surprised.

Are we at least certain that reddit user "StukaLied" is BU Rob 13? BU Rob13's RFA-- Is this really his first account? ?
I would be shocked if Rob was StukaLied. Tarc it looks like in your link that Stuka is quoting something Rob said. Stuka was active in the early days of WikiInAction, and wrote frequently about the gamergate characters. Stuka was also experienced and knowledgeable about Wiki history, so that would mean Rob has been around for a lot longer than he lets on. I’ve always thought Stuka was TDA.
I took the "I"s to mean it was him saying it there in the reddit post, but you could be right.

There was also some talk that Stuka was Masem, but I didn't really ever buy that either. I think Masem liked My Little Pony's or something, and Stuka used to enjoy making fun of that. I miss his posts; they were usually very entertaining.

mynameisnotdave · Unread post by **mynameisnotdave** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:47 pm

For me, this has all developed into a mere conspiracy theory, until actual evidence has emerged that BURob is a sock of someone. Now, has anyone considered the possibility of the TfD edit being the first a mere coincidence?

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:35 pm

mynameisnotdave wrote:For me, this has all developed into a mere conspiracy theory, until actual evidence has emerged that BURob is a sock of someone. Now, has anyone considered the possibility of the TfD edit being the first a mere coincidence?

Sure, I could believe that was a coincidence, however the string of edits of the next couple months, almost all of which were to areas that no new editor would even know about makes me think otherwise.

Then there are all the statements and comments he makes that he is "experienced about X", "For the last several years", the background knowledge he seems to have on things that happened many years ago, etc.

No, there is NO WAY he is not a sock of someone. It may not be T13 or any of the others we have identified and discussed, but he definitely had a previous account he isn't telling people about....and as someone who will probably get voted to Arbcom, that is extremely problematic. My hope is that he simply collects all the hats he wants and goes away like AGK and others have done in the past or the Arbcom or WMF find something and disqualify them. At this point though, since they are an admin and functionary, even if the Arbcom or WMF found something they would bury it and protect them because that is what they do with one of their own.

No Ledge · Unread post by **No Ledge** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:33 am

AGK posted their votes on their talk page.

Poetlister · Unread post by **Poetlister** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:32 pm

Volunteer Marek wrote:I voted for Opabinia. Mostly because that CrowsNest fellah was so down on her, and since pretty much everything else he said was so damn wrong, I figure she must be pretty good.

Total agreement.

Jim · Unread post by **Jim** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:54 am

No Ledge wrote:AGK posted their votes on their talk page.

Interesting to note that AGK doesn't support BU Rob: " ...reviewing their history and candidacy leaves me uncomfortable for reasons I don't think I can explain. I was pushed to oppose from general reluctance to elect this candidate..."
I think the percentage of experienced editors who are used to wiki-politics sharing this view could be reasonably high - which, of course, is why Rob started running around like a headless chicken insisting that the mass message to all eligible users be sent out immediately, when those tasked with sending it out had failed to work out how...
I'm not saying the mass message is a bad thing, because it isn't - it's just interesting to look at what maybe motivates people to get animated.

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:08 am

Obviously the mas messaging draws the voters but I think sending out thousands of messages, advertising on the top of watchpages, etc. is overkill. The community shouldn't be hounded if they don't want to vote just to make it stop. If the advertisement on the top of the watchlists doesn't attract enough attention, then maybe the Arbcom doesn't have the communities support as much as they think they do and maybe they should just close up shop.

Having said that, I ca't wait to see what the vote counts are for each candidate, I feel like I can pretty much tell you who is going to get elected and BU Rob will be on the bottom of the pile if they get elected at all. I feel they just don't have enough support though.

Unread post by **tarantino** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:55 am

AGK has made eleven edits in the last two years. Why should anyone care what he thinks?

Jim · Unread post by **Jim** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:10 am

tarantino wrote:AGK has made eleven edits in the last two years. Why should anyone care what he thinks?

Perhaps nobody does - but he still voted - which makes him a good example of people who would "vote anyway", and why BU Rob might think it a good thing to "drown out" that type of vote.
It might even be a good thing - I was more interested in the possible motivation for BU getting all stirred up about the mass message because what motivates people to do, or post, certain things interests me.

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:36 am

Jim wrote:
No Ledge wrote:AGK posted their votes on their talk page.
Interesting to note that AGK doesn't support BU Rob: " ...reviewing their history and candidacy leaves me uncomfortable for reasons I don't think I can explain. I was pushed to oppose from general reluctance to elect this candidate..."
I think the percentage of experienced editors who are used to wiki-politics sharing this view could be reasonably high - which, of course, is why Rob started running around like a headless chicken insisting that the mass message to all eligible users be sent out immediately, when those tasked with sending it out had failed to work out how...
I'm not saying the mass message is a bad thing, because it isn't - it's just interesting to look at what maybe motivates people to get animated.

I 100% guarantee that this dude is a sock of somebody and that he is a liar. There is nobody in the entire history of Wikipedia who has made their first edit at Templates for Discussion. Ever, ever, ever, ever, ever. The fact that he is a flag-collecting maniac is just additional circumstantial evidence.

RfB

P.S. He is also going to win the election, just like Roy Moore is gonna win...

CrowsNest · Unread post by **CrowsNest** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:17 am

Volunteer Marek wrote:And oh yeah, getting back to original topic, the only part of my vote that I'll divulge is that I voted for Opabinia. Mostly because that CrowsNest fellah was so down on her, and since pretty much everything else he said was so damn wrong, I figure she must be pretty good.

Last time we spoke I told you how Sandstein's mind works, and you disagreed. How's that working out for you?

Volunteer Marek · Unread post by **Volunteer Marek** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:46 am

CrowsNest wrote:
Volunteer Marek wrote:And oh yeah, getting back to original topic, the only part of my vote that I'll divulge is that I voted for Opabinia. Mostly because that CrowsNest fellah was so down on her, and since pretty much everything else he said was so damn wrong, I figure she must be pretty good.
Last time we spoke I told you how Sandstein's mind works, and you disagreed. How's that working out for you?

Fine I guess. Not sure why you're declaring victory over here.

Unread post by **Midsize Jake** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:04 am

Volunteer Marek wrote:
CrowsNest wrote:Last time we spoke I told you how Sandstein's mind works, and you disagreed. How's that working out for you?
Fine I guess. Not sure why you're declaring victory over here.

Because they won't let him declare victory over there...?

Volunteer Marek · Unread post by **Volunteer Marek** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:04 am

Midsize Jake wrote:
Volunteer Marek wrote:
CrowsNest wrote:Last time we spoke I told you how Sandstein's mind works, and you disagreed. How's that working out for you?
Fine I guess. Not sure why you're declaring victory over here.
Because they won't let him declare victory over there...?

Oh, he banned? Figures.

Kingsindian · Unread post by **Kingsindian** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:11 am

I have no idea whether BU Rob13 is a sock of anyone or not. But I don't see anything in their first edits that I couldn't have done. Anyway, one can turn the argument on its head: couldn't a real sockpuppet cover their tracks better? Why would they vote on a TfD anyway? I don't think I've ever voted on a TfD in my life.

Anyway, since admins are for life, one can take the attitude of "better safe than sorry".

CrowsNest · Unread post by **CrowsNest** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:07 pm

I wonder how many of the people who have voted or will vote today, spotted the tribal undertones and self-preservatory nature of this particular edit by a sitting admin. It should be easy for anyone who has followed ArbCom business closely these last few weeks, particularly those examining the fitness to serve of people like Opabina Regalis, many people's stand out candidate.

I have mentioned the necessary backstory which gives light to it a couple of times in this thread, so even people here have no excuses for not being able to spot what I can see. That one innocent and innocuous looking comment by an admin just doing their community appointed function, in reality strikes a dagger through the heart of that very precious thing, community trust. I bet that particular admin could probably walk onto the ArbCom panel tomorrow, such is the inattentiveness of the electorate.

But you can hardly blame them for such obvious mistakes in how they choose their leaders, or rather their policemen. In the real world, there are functioning public bodies and societal institutions whose solemn duty is to do this sort of research, to root out the corruption. On Wikipedia, it is all simply left to Joe Citizen. Poor old Joe probably doesn't even know the psycopath that will be ending his Wikipedia career tomorrow, was someone he had previously lazily assumed was a just good honest cop trying his best to serve the populace, and so deserved his chance to serve in City Hall. Poor old Joe. Poor stupid fucking Joe. Too stupid to even know he doesn't know what he doesn't know.

Alex Shih · Unread post by **Alex Shih** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:25 pm

CrowsNest, with all due respect, I don't know what your unblock rationale here was, but I am guessing "I will continue to be unnecessarily hostile" wasn't one of them?

CrowsNest · Unread post by **CrowsNest** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:43 am

Alex Shih wrote:CrowsNest, with all due respect, I don't know what your unblock rationale here was, but I am guessing "I will continue to be unnecessarily hostile" wasn't one of them?

For a guy who just blocked an alleged sock of mine, without even having the courtesy of sticking around and explaining yourself, I find it very interesting that you are so concerned with my status here. There's a job vacancy for a site admin here, if you want the same powers over me as you do over people on Wikipedia.

If we're sharing, I have to ask, but don't really expect a response if I'm honest, what's the deal with those accusations regarding collusion between you, TNT and Dennis? Bit suspicious that, no? Have you three been exchanging private messages over here to make Dennis' Christmas wishes come true, using this place, the BADSITE, as a way to avoid being seen getting all nice and cosy on IRC or have your contacts logged in Wikipedia email?

Why did neither you or TNT stick around to explain why WP:NNH apparently doesn't exist, or doesn't apply. Did you both have a Christmas party to get to? Holy crap, you're not college WP:ROOMMATES are you? That would be proper old skool adminning that would.

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:21 am

And in the end, after the notification was finally sent out, 1,993 votes were cast, an increase of 2.2% over last year's 1,950...

RfB

CrowsNest · Unread post by **CrowsNest** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:30 am

Not sure if that implies more people would have turned out with an on-time notice, or the notice has no effect. Or.....it does have an effect, but net migration is a negative number, a pretty friggin big one, and the similarity is one of those odd coincidences.

Unread post by **Zoloft** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:42 am

In the end, it was discovered that more people vote if you tell them an election is happening.

mynameisnotdave · Unread post by **mynameisnotdave** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:22 pm

Alex Shih wrote:--post--

I will stop here, but I think we could improve the 'ignore Mr. so-and-so's' experience by not replying to or quoting this user.

Unread post by **Midsize Jake** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:22 am

mynameisnotdave wrote:I will stop here, but I think we could improve the 'ignore Mr. so-and-so's' experience by not replying to or quoting this user.

Perhaps... It would certainly be better for everyone if he could be less vituperative, but if you examine his whole body of work, I think you'll find that he almost invariably attacks people who have long-since gotten used to being attacked (and by all sorts of people), and generally leaves the "innocent" (and presumably more sensitive) folks alone. Moreover, this is an Arbcom Election thread, so there's a presumption of incivility pretty much by default, right?

Of course, with my having said that, he'll probably proceed to find the one person around here that everybody likes and bash him (or her) too.

Poetlister · Unread post by **Poetlister** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:26 pm

Midsize Jake wrote:Of course, with my having said that, he'll probably proceed to find the one person around here that everybody likes and bash him (or her) too.

That must be you! Surely you can look after yourself.

CrowsNest · Unread post by **CrowsNest** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:29 am

Templating the regulars is widely recognized as warranting a "fuck off". I stand by it. Curly Turkey 10:54, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

Someone should tell Opabina this guy has stolen her campaign slogan. Campaign manager Gerda Arendt will be furious.

Mason · Unread post by **Mason** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:07 am

I just watched the Alabama Senate election returns. Seems they can manage to count over a million votes in less than a day and declare a winner. Kinda weird we have to wait weeks to see what the 2000 or so ArbCom voters had to say, but I suppose the stakes are much lower.

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:23 am

Mason wrote:I just watched the Alabama Senate election returns. Seems they can manage to count over a million votes in less than a day and declare a winner. Kinda weird we have to wait weeks to see what the 2000 or so ArbCom voters had to say, but I suppose the stakes are much lower.

Alabama is probably competent and doesn't rely on children with no credentials or real-world experience over people who are actually qualified.

Poetlister · Unread post by **Poetlister** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:47 pm

Kumioko wrote:Alabama is probably competent and doesn't rely on children with no credentials or real-world experience over people who are actually qualified.

It's the state that made Roy Moore its top judge and came within a whisker of electing him to the Senate.