Abd indeffed on wikiversity
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:09 pm
The Wikipedia Critics' Forum
https://wikipediocracy.com/forum/
https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Wikiversity:Colloquium&diff=1433108&oldid=1433091
Isn' what Abd said about Dave true for nearly all wiki sysops? They're chosen for edit counts ("high activity in site maintenance") instead of leadership or dispute resolution skills. Perhaps that's an issue wiki communities should be permitted to have discussions about. Anons and short-term editors write most of Wikipedia's content, while the massive-edit-count editors mainly engage in adding categories, formatting, and typo-correcting, often with bots.Dave knows almost nothing about dispute resolution procedures on a wiki. I've been astonished to find that, but it's not terribly surprising, given his history. His high activity in site maintenance would not teach him this. Wikiversity mostly avoids conflict, so one may not gain much experience in this here. Dave started enwiki and Wikiversity activity when the wiki was relatively dead, he started editing in 2012. His enwiki activity remains very thin. Many users there never see ANI, or read ArbCom cases. Consider how Dave became a permanent custodian, who made that happen? (If you don't know, ask!) I work outside the rules, but in line with anticipation of community consensus, which is the ''real rule.'' Someone constrained by "the rules" would not have been able to do what I did.
Wikis delegate, not authority, but power. Campus cops may have guns. What authority do they have? -- only ''ad hoc authority,'' that is, the power to govern their own actions, (which can include arrest), subject to review by the real authorities. --[[User:Abd|Abd]] ([[User talk:Abd|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Abd|contribs]]) 05:03, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
In my experience, many admins cause more disputes than they resolve.Michaeldsuarez wrote:Isn' what Abd said about Dave true for nearly all wiki sysops? They're chosen for edit counts ("high activity in site maintenance") instead of leadership or dispute resolution skills. Perhaps that's an issue wiki communities should be permitted to have discussions about. Anons and short-term editors write most of Wikipedia's content, while the massive-edit-count editors mainly engage in adding categories, formatting, and typo-correcting, often with bots.
He blocked Wikiversity's greatest visionary and guiding light. Nearly no one other than Abd understood what Wikiversity should be like.The Joy wrote:I have no idea if Professor Braunschweig is one of the sane ones at Wikiversity.
Sharing. Wikiversity is a place to share learning resources and experiences. Now they've eliminated yet another person who actively sought to share and build, because they believe that feelings must be protected at all costs.The Joy wrote:What was the point of Wikiversity again? :unsure:
Athens' democracy had Socrates killed.The Joy wrote:How can Abd be a visionary and guiding light when Wikiversity's community does not want to follow him?
Michaeldsuarez wrote:Athens' democracy had Socrates killed.The Joy wrote:How can Abd be a visionary and guiding light when Wikiversity's community does not want to follow him?
Eliminating the people on the projects who are actively sharing knowledge and building an encyclopedia is a common practice in the WMF wiki's these days. There are a few on every project who built their wiki careers on getting rid of content builders. All they have to do is cite Not here or Disruption or accuse them of being a sockpuppet of some previously banned user and that's all she wrote. The result will be a decision based on who of the 2 has the stronger reputation, the accuser or the accused.Michaeldsuarez wrote:He blocked Wikiversity's greatest visionary and guiding light. Nearly no one other than Abd understood what Wikiversity should be like.The Joy wrote:I have no idea if Professor Braunschweig is one of the sane ones at Wikiversity.
Sharing. Wikiversity is a place to share learning resources and experiences. Now they've eliminated yet another person who actively sought to share and build, because they believe that feelings must be protected at all costs.The Joy wrote:What was the point of Wikiversity again?
etiamidlewild wrote:Eliminating the people on the projects who are actively sharing knowledge and building an encyclopedia is a common practice in the WMF wiki's these days. There are a few on every project who built their wiki careers on getting rid of content builders. All they have to do is cite Not here or Disruption or accuse them of being a sockpuppet of some previously banned user and that's all she wrote. The result will be a decision based on who of the 2 has the stronger reputation, the accuser or the accused.
[[User:Socrates]], due to your continuing disruptive [[WP:UNHEMLOCK]] requests, your talk page access has been revoked. If you wish to contest this Hemlock, please contact the Hemock Appeals Subcommittee by parchment.Randy from Boise wrote:Michaeldsuarez wrote:Athens' democracy had Socrates killed.The Joy wrote:How can Abd be a visionary and guiding light when Wikiversity's community does not want to follow him?
Seriously?Michaeldsuarez wrote:Athens' democracy had Socrates killed.The Joy wrote:How can Abd be a visionary and guiding light when Wikiversity's community does not want to follow him?
Are you suggesting otherwise?SB_Johnny wrote:Seriously?Michaeldsuarez wrote:Athens' democracy had Socrates killed.The Joy wrote:How can Abd be a visionary and guiding light when Wikiversity's community does not want to follow him?
12:25, 14 September 2015 Dave Braunschweig (discuss | contribs) hemlocked Abd (discuss | contribs) with an expiry time of indefinite (cannot create accounts) (Intimidation, harassment, or vulgar language: Continued personal attacks against the polis.)
Perhaps a random demise from a list like the early Unix cookies file.The Joy wrote:Wikiversity really should change their "Block" policy to "Hemlock."
12:25, 14 September 2015 Dave Braunschweig (discuss | contribs) hemlocked Abd (discuss | contribs) with an expiry time of indefinite (cannot create accounts) (Intimidation, harassment, or vulgar language: Continued personal attacks against the polis.)
Abd talkpage wrote:I have abandoned the effort to create the Wikiversity I envisioned, as I failed to create the necessary conditions. I am now heavily occupied elsewhere, in ways that are far more rewarding, routinely. However, there are resources here that are valuable, with incoming links, and which should be maintained; for example, a "citation needed" template was added to one, and a citation is easily supplied. Thanks. --Abd (discuss • contribs) 23:41, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
The block itself was very specific. Additional restrictions on the unblock would not be appropriate. However, I sincerely hope that we will be able to avoid disruptions and discussions that have a net negative effect on Wikiversity. I appreciate your understanding. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 02:43, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
Abd poll: Date of the next block?Jim wrote:02:38, 15 October 2015 Dave Braunschweig (discuss | contribs) unhemlocked Abd (discuss | contribs) (Agreement to focus comments on issues rather than editors.)
Abd talkpage wrote:I have abandoned the effort to create the Wikiversity I envisioned, as I failed to create the necessary conditions. I am now heavily occupied elsewhere, in ways that are far more rewarding, routinely. However, there are resources here that are valuable, with incoming links, and which should be maintained; for example, a "citation needed" template was added to one, and a citation is easily supplied. Thanks. --Abd (discuss • contribs) 23:41, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
The block itself was very specific. Additional restrictions on the unblock would not be appropriate. However, I sincerely hope that we will be able to avoid disruptions and discussions that have a net negative effect on Wikiversity. I appreciate your understanding. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 02:43, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
So Abd was acting on Wikipediocracy's behalf?Good block. Keep up the good work. He poisoned so much and chased away so many people. He was encouraged by a group who wanted to destroy Wikipedia in general, and felt that destroying Wikiversity was a first step. Ottava Rima (talk) 21:37, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
His one edit this year.The Joy wrote:https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/User_ta ... Good_block
So Abd was acting on Wikipediocracy's behalf?Good block. Keep up the good work. He poisoned so much and chased away so many people. He was encouraged by a group who wanted to destroy Wikipedia in general, and felt that destroying Wikiversity was a first step. Ottava Rima (talk) 21:37, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
Technically, Wikipediocracy has more of a "sunlight is the best disinfectant" philosophy than the old "Wikipedia must die!" way. If our pointing out Wikipedia's flaws destroys it or reforms it, it's all good.
You have to allow time for another attempt at sysop, or the Drama God will not be happy, so, say, Christmas?Vigilant wrote:Abd poll: Date of the next block?
I say December 7th. Happy Pearl Harbor day.
Vigilant wrote:They should sew Abd and Ottava into a bag and throw it in the river.
Can anyone recall if Ottava has an account on Wikipedia Review? If so, does that imply that this is more of a badsite than WR?Good block. Keep up the good work. He poisoned so much and chased away so many people. He was encouraged by a group who wanted to destroy Wikipedia in general, and felt that destroying Wikiversity was a first step. Ottava Rima (talk) 21:37, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
Wait, let's compare the following:Good block. Keep up the good work. He poisoned so much and chased away so many people. He was encouraged by a group who wanted to destroy Wikipedia in general, and felt that destroying Wikiversity was a first step. Ottava Rima (talk) 21:37, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
https://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Wikiversity:Colloquium&diff=1433108All I can see are a lot of page moves and very little admin work besides basic cleanup deletions. Why do you want to be an admin? [[User:Ottava Rima|Ottava Rima]] ([[User talk:Ottava Rima|talk]]) 03:37, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
Both at one time or another believed that Dave Braunschweig wouldn't make a good sysop and for similar reasons, yet when Dave Braunschweig blocks Ottava's arch-nemesis, Ottava plays the sycophant. Ottava ought to be defending Abd and his right to make such comments.Dave knows almost nothing about dispute resolution procedures on a wiki. I've been astonished to find that, but it's not terribly surprising, given his history. His high activity in site maintenance would not teach him this. Wikiversity mostly avoids conflict, so one may not gain much experience in this here. Dave started enwiki and Wikiversity activity when the wiki was relatively dead, he started editing in 2012. His enwiki activity remains very thin. Many users there never see ANI, or read ArbCom cases. Consider how Dave became a permanent custodian, who made that happen? (If you don't know, ask!) I work outside the rules, but in line with anticipation of community consensus, which is the ''real rule.'' Someone constrained by "the rules" would not have been able to do what I did.
Wikis delegate, not authority, but power. Campus cops may have guns. What authority do they have? -- only ''ad hoc authority,'' that is, the power to govern their own actions, (which can include arrest), subject to review by the real authorities. --[[User:Abd|Abd]] ([[User talk:Abd|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Abd|contribs]]) 05:03, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
The correlation between what Ottava ought to do and what he does is not positive. I suspect that it is clearly negative.Michaeldsuarez wrote:Ottava ought to be defending Abd and his right to make such comments.
Yes, he did. He obsessed over Geogre, Giano, and the other Featured Article writers for being "terrible." All I remember is any statement made by anyone besides Ottava was considered "idiotic" by Ottava. He ended up banned and we could never mention his name again in public without the staff getting e-mails from him years after he was gone.Poetlister wrote:Can anyone recall if Ottava has an account on Wikipedia Review? If so, does that imply that this is more of a badsite than WR?Good block. Keep up the good work. He poisoned so much and chased away so many people. He was encouraged by a group who wanted to destroy Wikipedia in general, and felt that destroying Wikiversity was a first step. Ottava Rima (talk) 21:37, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
Poetlister wrote:The correlation between what Ottava ought to do and what he does is not positive. I suspect that it is clearly negative.Michaeldsuarez wrote:Ottava ought to be defending Abd and his right to make such comments.
Spock wrote:To expect sense from mentalities of such extreme viewpoints is not logical.
I particularly remember the thread where he baldly asserted than any parent who took naked pictures of their kids playing in the sprinkler was a child molester and needed to be arrested.The Joy wrote:Yes, he did. He obsessed over Geogre, Giano, and the other Featured Article writers for being "terrible." All I remember is any statement made by anyone besides Ottava was considered "idiotic" by Ottava. He ended up banned and we could never mention his name again in public without the staff getting e-mails from him years after he was gone.Poetlister wrote:Can anyone recall if Ottava has an account on Wikipedia Review? If so, does that imply that this is more of a badsite than WR?Good block. Keep up the good work. He poisoned so much and chased away so many people. He was encouraged by a group who wanted to destroy Wikipedia in general, and felt that destroying Wikiversity was a first step. Ottava Rima (talk) 21:37, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
Those were the days, my friend. We thought they'd never end.Vigilant wrote:I particularly remember the thread where he baldly asserted than any parent who took naked pictures of their kids playing in the sprinkler was a child molester and needed to be arrested.
Sadly, that link doesn't work for me anymore...Jim wrote:Those were the days, my friend. We thought they'd never end.Vigilant wrote:I particularly remember the thread where he baldly asserted than any parent who took naked pictures of their kids playing in the sprinkler was a child molester and needed to be arrested.
Oh yeah. B&. Try this.Vigilant wrote:Sadly, that link doesn't work for me anymore...
Was I banned?Jim wrote:Oh yeah. B&. Try this.Vigilant wrote:Sadly, that link doesn't work for me anymore...
Sorry. I assumed you couldn't log in to see the link, and thought that might be why. I'm astonished it's still there, actually.Vigilant wrote:Was I banned?Jim wrote:Oh yeah. B&. Try this.Vigilant wrote:Sadly, that link doesn't work for me anymore...
I don't recall...
Arguing with women over what constitutes a vagina.Zoloft wrote:I had forgotten just how insane that discussion was. Ottava took it upon himself to redefine the concepts of pedophilia, nakedness, and what a vagina is!
I have almost no idea what that means. Can you explain?Vigilant wrote: Perhaps a random demise from a list like the early Unix cookies file.
Keep up; we were just discussing Ottava. Abd has managed to have children, so he may be better informed about female anatomy that Ottava is.Auggie wrote:
Abd
That dude's crazy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortune_(Unix)greyed.out.fields wrote:I have almost no idea what that means. Can you explain?Vigilant wrote: Perhaps a random demise from a list like the early Unix cookies file.
(Remembering that your audience was still using a PC running Windows 95 until 2004, and used to improve its performance stop it crashing so often by taking off the side panels and blowing out the dust with a hair dryer, of course.)
Every single new venue is 'teh bestest evar' for him... until he gets banned, that is. Every. Single. Time.Thanks. What I have abandoned is a personal effort to make it happen. I will support the efforts of others. I did not succeed in creating the community that is required, and, specifically, leadership other than my own. I'm trained in creating community projects, that was a big red flag.
In hindsight, it's obvious. I'm now active on Quora, where the quality of regular participation is astonishing, and where my work is not only accepted, it is requested and acknowledged. Quora provides statistics, and my page views are now running above 6000 views per day (from about 1000 when I was neglecting Quora for Wikiversity, and ). I am profusely thanked, every day. I'm making a difference in the lives of people, and engaging with teenage kids, mothers, people seeking relationship advice, as well as some of the best thinkers on the planet, some of whom are welcoming me and acknowledging me. This is my profile page there: [4] (Quora requires real names, by the way.) (I haven't edited my Quora bio since the block).
The block and reaction to it demonstrated that Wikiversity isn't safe, as more or less the last straw in a series of incidents showing this (involving others). --Abd (discuss • contribs) 03:38, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
That's pretty funny. When he gets kicked off the Martha Stewart blog we'll know he's hit rock bottom.Vigilant wrote:Anyone want to take bets on how long it take Abd to get himself blocked on Quora?
...
Every single new venue is 'teh bestest evar' for him... until he gets banned, that is. Every. Single. Time.
Ottava's fine in my book. It looks like you're making a lame attempt at some kind of 8th grade bullying, TBH.Poetlister wrote: Keep up; we were just discussing Ottava. Abd has managed to have children, so he may be better informed about female anatomy that Ottava is.
I think they call that 'Nostalgia.'Jim wrote:"I'll do that wikipedian "coming out of recent retirement" thing just to point out that this thread is now the Poethorde arguing with Auggie about whether we were talking about Abd or Ottava. It made me smile. That's all.
They used to. I remember those days.Zoloft wrote:I think they call that 'Nostalgia.'
What happened to your avatar?Jim wrote:They used to. I remember those days.Zoloft wrote:I think they call that 'Nostalgia.'
The cat is withdrawn until Greg admits he was a bit rude and unnecessary. It's a pointless, shit, illogical and emotionally hyperbolic gesture on my part, but hey, this is the internet.Vigilant wrote:What happened to your avatar?Jim wrote:They used to. I remember those days.Zoloft wrote:I think they call that 'Nostalgia.'
Jim wrote:I'll do that wikipedian "coming out of recent retirement" thing just to point out that this thread is now the Poethorde arguing with Auggie about whether we were talking about Abd or Ottava. It made me smile. That's all.