Proposal to remove all advanced rightsholders at Pashto Wiki

[Michaeldsuarez]

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Stewards%27_noticeboard#Proposal_to_remove_all_advanced_rightsholders_at_Pashto_Wikipedia (permalink)

I'm not exactly sure what's going on, but it apparently involves sysops blocking each other, sockpuppetry, and corruption ("uncertain processes of appointment of administrators") or something like that. The charge is being led by Billinghurst.

[DanMurphy]

Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

[Jim]

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Stewards%27_noticeboard#Proposal_to_remove_all_advanced_rightsholders_at_Pashto_Wikipedia (permalink)

I'm not exactly sure what's going on, but it apparently involves sysops blocking each other, sockpuppetry, and corruption ("uncertain processes of appointment of administrators") or something like that. The charge is being led by Billinghurst.

It's not clear exactly what's happening, is it?
I confess, though, the thought of creating a section below it, called Proposal to remove all advanced rightsholders at Wikimedia Commons did make me smile for a second. Clean slate, and all that.

[Poetlister]

Yes, you can find weird things going on all over the place on WMF sites.

Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

Good old Kipling - suitable for every occasion.

[EricBarbour]

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Stewards%27_noticeboard#Proposal_to_remove_all_advanced_rightsholders_at_Pashto_Wikipedia (permalink)

I'm not exactly sure what's going on, but it apparently involves sysops blocking each other, sockpuppetry, and corruption ("uncertain processes of appointment of administrators") or something like that. The charge is being led by Billinghurst.

Very commonplace on lesser language WPs, and rarely mentioned on Meta or elsewhere. If they're noticing it, it must be one gigantic mess.

[Michaeldsuarez]

Vituzzu has desyopped all the pswiki sysops. However, they apparently forgot to invite the pswiki community at large or the other sysops being affected into the discussion.

[EricBarbour]

Vituzzu has desyopped all the pswiki sysops. However, they apparently forgot to invite the pswiki community at large or the other sysops being affected into the discussion.

I would expect Vituzzu to do something that stupid, of course! And don't be surprised if Pashtun WP starts to die now.

[Vigilant]

This thread is full of WIN!!!!

[Michaeldsuarez]

https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Billinghurst&diff=11921968&oldid=11921868:

but that discussion has nothing to do with me. I have been working hard in the translation process of Pashto wikipedia interface & I am also active on translatewiki. I dont understand why I am brought in a discussion that is not related to me. I am also surprised that because of a discussion between some users you guys are imposing ban on all the admins. Thats absolutely unfair. Pashto wiki main page is protected an only users with admin rights can edit that page. Kindly grant me back access to my admin and beuracrate rights Im sure unless there is no admin in Pashto wiki many peple will just publish advertisements and other non-wiki and non-encyclopedic articles. Some are already publishing pornographic pictures that is not considered suitable for kids and for those under 18 years of age. --[[User:ANBI|ANBI]] ([[User talk:ANBI|talk]]) 09:32, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Sounds like a good opportunity for vandals to put Commons' "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day" category to good use.

[DanMurphy]

Administration of this community will be undertaken by stewards and global administrators as per other small wikis, under the same conditions, as discussed above. — billinghurst sDrewth 09:54, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

This is some crazy and interesting stuff. I assume that the sets of "pastho speakers" and "stewards and global administrators" have very little overlap.

[Vigilant]

Administration of this community will be undertaken by stewards and global administrators as per other small wikis, under the same conditions, as discussed above. — billinghurst sDrewth 09:54, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

This is some crazy and interesting stuff. I assume that the sets of "pastho speakers" and "stewards and global administrators" have very little overlap.

About the same overlap as "sane" and "advanced permission holder on en.wp"...

[Poetlister]

And don't be surprised if Pashtun WP starts to die now.

It must be in a pretty dire state already for this to have happened. And I don't suppose the WMF will be overly concerned.

[EricBarbour]

And don't be surprised if Pashtun WP starts to die now.

It must be in a pretty dire state already for this to have happened. And I don't suppose the WMF will be overly concerned.

Doesn't look very good anyway.
http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/SummaryPS.htm

[Michaeldsuarez]

https://ps.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_talk:Policies

They're now trying to create new guidelines for the appointment / election of sysops.

[mac]

https://ps.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_talk:Policies

They're now trying to create new guidelines for the appointment / election of sysops.

This talk page of Wikipedia policies page, here you can propose or discuss about policies and please write here in English so that non-Pashto users also understand

Why is English a prerequisite for suggesting policy ideas to a supposedly "community" run Pashto wiki? And they wonder why they're having a diversity problem.

[Michaeldsuarez]

This is funny:

https://ps.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Project_talk:Policies&diff=170177&oldid=170164

Code: Select all

===Soocha Pashto===
Please everyone learn Soocha Pashto and use it we are not like dirty Punjabis who need language of camels {arabic} or language of bacha-baaz {farsi}. We have our own language we must use that only.
If you guys want help learn from here:
* https://www.facebook.com/PashtoPurification
* https://www.facebook.com/pages/Learn-Pashto%D9%BE%DA%9A%D8%AA%D9%88-%D8%B2%D8%AF%D9%87-%DA%A9%DA%93%D9%87/1410128112551480?fref=ts
'''Fuck Jinnah, Long Live Khpalwaak Pakhtunistan'''
[[کارن:Seendgay|Seendgay]] ([[د کارن خبرې اترې:Seendgay|خبرې اترې]]) 06:50, 22 اپرېل 2015 (UTC)

https://ps.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Project_talk:Policies&diff=170178&oldid=170177

Code: Select all

== SeenGay You are son of Bacha Baaz from father side and son of Panjabi from mother side ==

You are dirty panjabi you filthy barbarian . You dont even know the dot of respect. if you had known respect , pakhto and Pakhtunistan you would have not published your mother's under organ . 
Wallah you are dirty than animal .
Why do you generalise everone ? go to your panjab and do your dirt there not here.
--[[کارن:Afghanwrites|Afghanwrites]] ([[د کارن خبرې اترې:Afghanwrites|خبرې اترې]]) 09:31, 22 اپرېل 2015 (UTC)

What's funnier is that MarcoAurelio censors and blocks only Afghanwrites. MarcoAurelio doesn't seem to know or care that Seendgay is blatantly provoking others with his statements, even though Seendgay's statements are in plain English. Western occupation of Eastern territories always seems to be managed by idiots. The enlightened, self-righteous, white, know-it-all nerds of Wikipedia don't seem to realize that they're just as clueless about Eastern affairs as George Bush was. Westerners will always claim that they know what's best for the East; we've already seen it with Commons' and dewiki's reaction to the image filter proposal.

[Zoloft]

Wikimedia:

[Michaeldsuarez]

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Support_collaboration_on_Pashto_Wikipedia

Abd is here to make things better.

[Poetlister]

Admin is a person elected by Community votes
Admin who is in-active for more than 6 months will be removed
Removal of an Admin will be discussed and after consensus if the majority voted in the favor of the removal of that Admin then he will be removed
Before requesting removal of Admin, discussion should be done locally

I think we could support that for EN-WP.

And yes, someone comments "?WHY DO YOU SEEK TO EXCLUDE THOSE WHO DO NOT SPEAK ENGLISH".

[Vigilant]

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Support_collaboration_on_Pashto_Wikipedia

Abd is here to make things better.

He's such a samaritan.

[Michaeldsuarez]

https://ps.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Project_talk:Vote_for_Block_of_Seendgay&diff=170611:

.You guys are deleting all article on sex. When Pashtun people die of aids for not wearing condoms. Then you have your ownseleves to blame.
Morality is subjective, science and health are not [[کارن:Seendgay|Seendgay]] ([[د کارن خبرې اترې:Seendgay|خبرې اترې]]) 09:35, 25 اپرېل 2015 (UTC)

hehehe.

Also, my assistance is unwelcome:

listen to me !
Either you are the same person with second name or if you are not the same person you maybe are the supporter of the vanalists and gangsters . What do you know about the sex education?n do you know Pashto language to understand what he is writing?
he is tottally insane and writing the vulgarity ,inappropriate language , he just pretend to be the best contributor but instead he writes abusive words and cursing the religions .
--[[کارن:Afghanwrites|Afghanwrites]] ([[د کارن خبرې اترې:Afghanwrites|خبرې اترې]]) 13:32, 24 اپرېل 2015 (UTC)

== Your interference here is not welcome ==

Not sure what you are doing over here. One would think that you would think that someone with your reputation is not going to be considered helpful. I would suggest that you move back to your community of interest. [[کارن:Billinghurst|Billinghurst]] ([[د کارن خبرې اترې:Billinghurst|خبرې اترې]]) 10:30, 25 اپرېل 2015 (UTC)

[Poetlister]

Also, my assistance is unwelcome

So says Billinghurst, the well-known Pashto speaker and expert on Pashto culture. Still, this is a good example of how social mores differ from site to site, and I suppose we can ask whether we have the right to intervene on a site where we aren't a regular participant.

[Jim]

we can ask

Will you be ok with that on your own?

[Poetlister]

we can ask

Will you be ok with that on your own?

I was proposing that as a general topic for discussion here, rather than on the Pashto site.

[Vigilant]

Jesus, what a narcissistic shitbag.

I wrote a relatively lengthy response explaining what use you could be, and how your own behavior was bullying, of a kind, and, as part of writing this, I looked more at the history. Never mind. I give up on this case.
I will point out one thing: I have credentials as a wiki reformer. I've been effective. I'm being successful. I'm still banned on enwiki (you aren't actually banned, you are only indeffed, though if you have continued to sock, you will be banned. What you did there far exceeded anything I did, but there was one difference. I was effective, and I definitely did threaten certain interests. You were not considered such a risk, which is why you got away with so much for so long.)
I'm still banned because I have not requested unban. I have a few more steps to take before that will occur; I'm not sure it's necessary, because wiki reform does not require that I personally edit Wikipedia. In any case, I looked at your history, and concluded that you are totally unsuited to edit Wikipedia. That could change, but you would have to change, to come to understand something about yourself, and as long as you believe that the problem is them, you will be useless. You think you are standing up to bullies, but whom are you protecting? Study this: meatball:DefendEachOther. You are full of yourself, with no knowledge of how to function socially in a wiki environment.
You are creating the "excuse" to block you here, as you abundantly created it to block you there. Until you take responsibility for what you create, you will continue to be a victim, not a defeater of bullies. --Abd (talk) 02:24, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

[Vigilant]

AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA

https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php? ... u_doing.3F

What are you doing?

There is no clerk system at meta at this point of time, especially not a self-appointed system. There exists admins for administrative decisions. When the local or global community wants one it will come from a respective consensus discussion.

RFCs exist for the purpose of discussion/comment not control or administration.

Wherever possible, community discussions belong at the community at the heart of the discussion, not meta.

Where small communities need external administrative assistance then it belongs at Steward requests/Miscellaneous until community/stewards/GS decide otherwise.

If you think that you have the skills, suitability and support to undertake the role of GS or steward, then put yourself forward.

Your approach - clumsy, self-informed, restricted view, self-held - is between not helpful and deeply problematic. I would advise you to keep out of the way. If you continue to contribute in a manner that is problematic then expect to see a discussion with your name on it. — billinghurst sDrewth 02:39, 25 April 2015 (UTC)


Thanks, Billinghurst. I have committed to clerking that RfC page, to support that community and culture -- which I know something about -- and will do so as long as permitted.
Would you mind pointing to a specific problematic contribution? I'd appreciate it.
If I am warned to stop, by an admin or steward, I will. I do not read the above as such a warning, it was not explicit. I read it as a highly judgmental criticism. I am not "in the way." If so, how? What am I preventing?
Traditionally, users were free to experiment with process. Nobody is forced to participate. If they are disruptive, there is procedure for handling it.
The page you mention (Miscellaneous) is for requests, and it is obviously not used for discussion or community comment, and my experience has been that community comment is often unwelcome on steward request pages.
If warned to stop, I would expect to be able to place a notice withdrawing my volunteer work on that RfC.
I am not looking for tools, it would be like a facilitator in a court carrying a gun. That's not what we do. You have those tools, and apparently you dislike any interference, i.e, community advice or participation. That's unfortunate. I understood the WMF structure differently than that. Good luck. --Abd (talk) 03:00, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Wow.

[Michaeldsuarez]

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Nemo_bis/User_rights_process

https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales&diff=12151721&oldid=12024085

Sounds like Nemo_bis wants desysopping on this scale to become a regular phenomenon. Good-bye independent wiki communities, and hello almighty Steward overlords.

[Vigilant]

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Nemo_bis/User_rights_process

https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales&diff=12151721&oldid=12024085

Sounds like Nemo_bis wants desysopping on this scale to become a regular phenomenon.

Talk about your power grab here.

[spartaz]

I think its more to allow Communities to have the last word over the WMF, If you read the talk page of the proposal its about superprotect rather then allowing the stewards to decapitate an entire admin/rights holding class. I'd understand the confusion though, I simply cannot understand what the motion actually means without the talk-page commentary.

[Poetlister]

Sounds like Nemo_bis wants desysopping on this scale to become a regular phenomenon. Good-bye independent wiki communities, and hello almighty Steward overlords.

The stewards are only supposed to do what they're told. Although Billinhurst is of course a steward, he couldn't do anything unilaterally. It's the Meta community, which is even more twisted than the English WP one and of course doesn't properly represent the smaller wikis.

[Neotarf]

AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA

https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php? ... u_doing.3F

What are you doing?

There is no clerk system at meta at this point of time, especially not a self-appointed system. There exists admins for administrative decisions. When the local or global community wants one it will come from a respective consensus discussion.

RFCs exist for the purpose of discussion/comment not control or administration.

Wherever possible, community discussions belong at the community at the heart of the discussion, not meta.

Where small communities need external administrative assistance then it belongs at Steward requests/Miscellaneous until community/stewards/GS decide otherwise.

If you think that you have the skills, suitability and support to undertake the role of GS or steward, then put yourself forward.

Your approach - clumsy, self-informed, restricted view, self-held - is between not helpful and deeply problematic. I would advise you to keep out of the way. If you continue to contribute in a manner that is problematic then expect to see a discussion with your name on it. — billinghurst sDrewth 02:39, 25 April 2015 (UTC)


Thanks, Billinghurst. I have committed to clerking that RfC page, to support that community and culture -- which I know something about -- and will do so as long as permitted.
Would you mind pointing to a specific problematic contribution? I'd appreciate it.
If I am warned to stop, by an admin or steward, I will. I do not read the above as such a warning, it was not explicit. I read it as a highly judgmental criticism. I am not "in the way." If so, how? What am I preventing?
Traditionally, users were free to experiment with process. Nobody is forced to participate. If they are disruptive, there is procedure for handling it.
The page you mention (Miscellaneous) is for requests, and it is obviously not used for discussion or community comment, and my experience has been that community comment is often unwelcome on steward request pages.
If warned to stop, I would expect to be able to place a notice withdrawing my volunteer work on that RfC.
I am not looking for tools, it would be like a facilitator in a court carrying a gun. That's not what we do. You have those tools, and apparently you dislike any interference, i.e, community advice or participation. That's unfortunate. I understood the WMF structure differently than that. Good luck. --Abd (talk) 03:00, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Wow.

That has been tried before, although the practice didn't measure up to the theory. In all fairness, this kind of edit doesn't seem all that harmful, if I'm following the Farsi correctly. I don't read Farsi, but I do know the pages are read from right to left, so the comments are being restored, not removed.