2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Triptych » Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:25 pm

thekohser wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:
thekohser wrote:The case is all clerked up and ready to go.
You have until September 16 to present your evidence here, Mr. Kohs. The limit on testimony is 1,000 words and 100 diffs, which should be used to support your various assertions.
Do I have to? I'm not even an "involved party" to what is purportedly "my" case!
Strangely Carrite (self-identified at Wikipediocracy as Randy from Boise) has added himself as an involved party, but I'm not clear at all what his connection is. Maybe he just wants some personalized attention.

As for you Kohser, well the idea is that it's your IP comments at Jimbo Talk that the terrible trio have been edit-warring back and forth. Well, maybe "edit war" is the wrong word. They're not arguing about the configuration or content of an article, it's rather over the proposition that the IPs in question may be allowed to speak at all. It's a "delete war."

Thing is, I don't actually know those IPs are you. They're unsigned. Having seen them now and then over the last year plus, it has seemed to me on occasion that "yeah, Greg Kohs prob. wrote that one" but then on other occasion it was more "can't really guess who wrote that."

Tarc is now extremely on the "let the IP speak" side but in the not-distant past he has been among the "delete the IP" side. Change of heart?

Jimbo says he has an open door policy, but in the past I've definitely seen him supporting those that watchdog and delete others from his page. He said basically, "please, continue to do so." He's inconsistent. The Jimbo talkpage watchdogs are the most idiotic and hyperactive administrative types, like Bwilkins and Tarc and "Hell in a Bucket." I know some of them aren't administrators, they are still administrative types, homebased at WP:AN/ANI and scurrying like hungry little rats hither and yon to gobble up and regurgitate the latest drama.

A couple years ago, I believe there was a general reluctance even among the administrative crowd to run around deleting block-evading communication on editor talkpages. They felt, hey, leave it to whomever's talkpage it is. But spearheaded by the hyper-aggressive types like Kww, the prevailing attitude has become more "I will chase you and delete you wherever you go, and no you may not talk to anybody on his or her talkpage, not even if he or she wants to. You are a non-person and you are banned, bAnNeD, BANNED!"

The answer to the case as far as policy (WP:EVADE) goes is that a banned or blocked editor's edits *may* be deleted, without regard to 3RR or anything. But if a user in good standing sees fit to restore the edits, they must be left alone, barring some problem other than evasion. Hell in a Bucket knows the WP:EVADE policy but mendaciously misstates it in his statement, asserting not that he *may* delete but that he *must* delete. As if any Wikipedia editor must do anything.
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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Jim » Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:37 pm

Zoloft wrote:
thekohser wrote:I, for one, would like to thank Hell in a Bucket for being a customer of Comcast (2601:1:c080:eef:c944:3bd5:d647:87e4). That helps with my stock options every quarter, I'm sure.
Hell in a Bucket is Mr. 2601!
:hamsterwheel:
You know, I'm beginning to suspect there might be more than one of this sneaky Mr. 2601 fellow...

As for Mr. 2001 - read it and weep: IPv6 address (T-H-L). My god - he's everywhere... :afraid:

Maybe the first 4 digits of an IPv6 address isn't such a great forensic tool after all. :crying:

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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by thekohser » Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:09 pm

Jim wrote:Maybe the first 4 digits of an IPv6 address isn't such a great forensic tool after all. :crying:
Well, I believe the first 4 digits do identify the service provider, so if you see 2601, you know it's someone on a Comcast router. That narrows the sockpuppet investigation to perhaps 20 million households and businesses. Oh, wait... public Xfinity WiFi hotspots will also use that 2601 address, and those are open to non-customers of Comcast for two 1-hour sessions per month, so you're probably looking at more like 50 million possible households and businesses who could be "guilty" of editing from a 2601 IPv6. Good luck, Wikipedia!
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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Jim » Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:24 pm

thekohser wrote:Well, I believe the first 4 digits do identify the service provider
I believe they do - it's the start of the "Network prefix"

About as much use as "well, he said his name was 'Lǐ', officer", in China.

Good luck, indeed.
I'll borrow Zoloft's :hamsterwheel:

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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by thekohser » Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:38 pm

How many person-hours have been expended addressing the Reward Board breaching experiment... first on Jimbo's Talk page, and now within the Arbitration Committee formalities?

I judge that the initial experiment on the Reward Board must have taken about 0.75 person-hours, and cost the payor $5.

If disruption of Wikipedia was the underlying intent of the breaching experiment (rather than the more obvious and simple explanation that The Rewarder was merely seeking community clarification of how the Terms of Use amendment applies to the Reward Board in a specific example), what was the return on investment, I wonder? Imagine if The Rewarder's original question to Jimbo had simply been discussed briefly by readers, then commented on by the spiritual leader, then allowed to archive by bot -- how many person-hours would that have expended?
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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by neved » Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:12 pm

Captain Occam wrote:
EricBarbour wrote:
Pondering furiously; neutral for now. I realize this is useless as input, which is what happens after six and one-half years on the Committee. I'll vote tomorrow if the case hasn't already been opened by then. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:09, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

I feel a long essay coming on, but I'm not sure how many people would feel like reading it.... Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:10, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
I feel a need to order him a tombstone -- with this crap chiseled on it.
But would rather he paid for it. (I suspect $20k is pocket change for Ira. Who sez slime doesn't pay?)
Do you think this implies that he won't be seeking re-election when his current term is over? I know a lot of people have speculated that he won't, but I haven't looked carefully at what the conclusion is based on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =624028073
I'm a soon-to-be former arbitrator.
Of course it means nothing. Two years ago brad promised not to run either, but after one of the sickest sadists of the so called wikipedia community encouraged brad to run he happily run to run.
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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Kiefer.Wolfowitz » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:02 pm

neved wrote:
Captain Occam wrote:
EricBarbour wrote:
Pondering furiously; neutral for now. I realize this is useless as input, which is what happens after six and one-half years on the Committee. I'll vote tomorrow if the case hasn't already been opened by then. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:09, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

I feel a long essay coming on, but I'm not sure how many people would feel like reading it.... Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:10, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
I feel a need to order him a tombstone -- with this crap chiseled on it.
But would rather he paid for it. (I suspect $20k is pocket change for Ira. Who sez slime doesn't pay?)
Do you think this implies that he won't be seeking re-election when his current term is over? I know a lot of people have speculated that he won't, but I haven't looked carefully at what the conclusion is based on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =624028073
I'm a soon-to-be former arbitrator.
Of course it means nothing. Two years ago brad promised not to run either, but after one of the sickest sadists of the so called wikipedia community encouraged brad to run he happily run to run.
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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by thekohser » Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:16 pm

I believe that MONGO (T-C-L) has violated Wikipedia's "Outing" policy, by identifying 2001:558:1400:10:3975:e755:22c2:7a3a (T-C-L) as "Greg Kohs".

Calling ArbCom and calling Tarc!
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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Konveyor Belt » Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:12 pm

Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Banning Policy/Evidence#Last minute walkout by Konveyor Belt (T-H-L)

Smallbones silences his critics. I see there is now no evidence against him, so it is little wonder he went after the one that had presented it.
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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by thekohser » Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:26 pm

Why did you drop out, KB? Merely the threat of escalation by Smallbones? Kind of like excusing yourself as a witness from the trial of a mobster when he gives you the evil eye from across the courtroom. (Can't say I blame you -- Smallbones is so deranged, there's no telling the lengths to which he might go, in order to torment you.)
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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Konveyor Belt » Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:17 pm

thekohser wrote:Why did you drop out, KB? Merely the threat of escalation by Smallbones? Kind of like excusing yourself as a witness from the trial of a mobster when he gives you the evil eye from across the courtroom. (Can't say I blame you -- Smallbones is so deranged, there's no telling the lengths to which he might go, in order to torment you.)
I had no personal investment in the case myself outside of being interested in how the dispute would end, and in the end I decided it was just not worth it. (also, it makes him look bad...shhh)
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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Konveyor Belt » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:05 pm

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Banning Policy/Proposed decision (T-H-L)

The PD has been posted. Thoughts?

I thought they let HIAB and 'bones get off with it on this one.
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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Vigilant » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:38 pm

7) Editors who have already been sanctioned for disruptive behavior may be sanctioned more harshly for repeated instances of similar behaviors.
Eric Corbett ?
1) For actions discussed within this case, as well as past history of disruption for which he has been sanctioned,[23][24] Tarc is subject to an indefinite editing restriction. Tarc may not edit any administrative noticeboards, nor User talk:Jimbo Wales, aside from the normal exceptions. Violations of this restriction are to be dealt with by escalating blocks, starting at 24 hours.
I'm sure that'll make things better...

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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:10 pm

Konveyor Belt wrote:Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Banning Policy/Proposed decision (T-H-L)

The PD has been posted. Thoughts?

I thought they let HIAB and 'bones get off with it on this one.

This whole case was a bit ridiculous.

Dave Craven/Worm That Turned pretty much has sided with Smallbones' interpretation of policy with regard to the "right" of anyone to automatically revert any material added by a suspected sock account without any obligation whatsoever to seek formal verification through SPI. There is no penalty for guessing wrong, nor is Smallbones criticized in the slightest for having guessed again and again and again. This is pretty much a green light for future abuse of this sort.

See: Timbo's Rule No. 10: Anyone who says "Wikipedia is not censored" has never paid particularly close attention to the way talk pages are treated by third parties. (Feb. 2012)

There is no "advance" from the previous practice of instantly-censor-at-mere-suspicion and the case is therefore a failure to the cause of Wikipedia reform as far as that goes.

======

The second point made by Dave is actually similar to the principle advanced in the most recent Richard Norton dust up at Arbitration Enforcement. To the following effect: "Once an edit by an editor in bad favor is introduced or reintroduced by an editor not in bad favor, it becomes the full responsibility of the latter."

At the point when Tarc "proxied" Mr. Kohs's question, Smallbones became subject to the 3 Revert Rule — which he and Tarc both proceeded to exceed massively. Both should have been blocked at the time, clearly. That they weren't speaks volumes about the courage of the administrative caste...

Smallbones is so crazed about this issue that I have a hunch he will do the exact thing again if somebody plays the role of Tarc in a similar situation. Dave's summary is not explicit enough about this matter for the principle to sink in with the fanatic, methinks.

======

Of course not a word is being said about Wikipedia's idiotic lack of registration verification procedures and permission of IP editing, which absolutely assures legions of socks of banned editors. This decision of Dave's is nothing but a new, thin coat of paint over the cracked and waterdamaged sheetrock tacked to the rotting frame on top the crumbling foundation.

File under: five weeks of blather for a bunch of whoopty doopty.

======

The wild card is the possible six month ban for the serial troll Tarc. Yes, our bridge-dwelling friend, your previous bad actions can be held against you. Will they? That's the only interesting part of this thoroughly useless case.

RfB

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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by thekohser » Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:53 pm

New or anonymous editors whose only edits demonstrate very similar behaviours to a banned user, especially one with a history of evading their ban, are indistinguishable from the banned user. Depending on the behaviours demonstrated, a sockpuppet investigation may not be required to identify the banned user.
There you have it. We have reached 1984 levels of doubleplusgood thought crime.

If anyone asks Jimbo to clarify a position related to paid editing, that person *is* me, and they are to be labeled a banned user.

And remember, this is the "open" and "transparent" encyclopedia that "anyone can edit".



P.S. I also note that there is no "Remedy" for me, because they can't stop me from doing what I've chosen to do over the past 7 years.
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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Poetlister » Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:21 pm

thekohser wrote:
New or anonymous editors whose only edits demonstrate very similar behaviours to a banned user, especially one with a history of evading their ban, are indistinguishable from the banned user. Depending on the behaviours demonstrated, a sockpuppet investigation may not be required to identify the banned user.
There you have it. We have reached 1984 levels of doubleplusgood thought crime.
This is only reiterating the famous Bauder ruling of 2007 (deleted so plebs can't verify it):

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =123412816

Tsunami Butler was properly blocked as a sockpuppet. Such determinations are not based on checkuser but on aggressive editing which fits the same pattern as a banned user. Obviously a different person may be involved; the violation is mirroring the behavior of the banned editor. [[User:Fred Bauder|Fred Bauder]] 11:26, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Jim » Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:25 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:Dave Craven/Worm That Turned pretty much has sided with Smallbones' interpretation of policy with regard to the "right" of anyone to automatically revert any material added by a suspected sock account without any obligation whatsoever to seek formal verification through SPI. There is no penalty for guessing wrong, nor is Smallbones criticized in the slightest for having guessed again and again and again. This is pretty much a green light for future abuse of this sort.
Indeed, and given Smallbones displays to date, I rather fancy he's the type who'll grab this "victory" like a dog with a bone.

Poor old Tarc - he should'n'a dun what he dun, probably, given the history - but he doesn't deserve a ban for it. What he did was no worse than the others. I hope that doesn't pass.

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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by EricBarbour » Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:35 pm

When are we going to do a blog post about Smallbones? Hasn't he done enough abuse to deserve one yet?

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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Konveyor Belt » Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:51 pm

EricBarbour wrote:When are we going to do a blog post about Smallbones? Hasn't he done enough abuse to deserve one yet?
ASAP I hope, after the case closes.
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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Notvelty » Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:43 pm

Vigilant wrote:
7) Editors who have already been sanctioned for disruptive behavior may be sanctioned more harshly for repeated instances of similar behaviors.
Eric Corbett ?
Nah, that's just a side show. The trick is to just repeatedly "warn" people who push the line you like. That way, you can ramp up the sanctions against people you don't while still having a handy dandy excuse as to the differential.
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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:28 am

Notvelty wrote:
Vigilant wrote:
7) Editors who have already been sanctioned for disruptive behavior may be sanctioned more harshly for repeated instances of similar behaviors.
Eric Corbett ?
Nah, that's just a side show. The trick is to just repeatedly "warn" people who push the line you like. That way, you can ramp up the sanctions against people you don't while still having a handy dandy excuse as to the differential.
That's about Tarc, who thumbed his nose at everyone after Manning closed. He's a prick, I don't like him.

RfB

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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Notvelty » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:13 am

Randy from Boise wrote:
Notvelty wrote:
Vigilant wrote:
7) Editors who have already been sanctioned for disruptive behavior may be sanctioned more harshly for repeated instances of similar behaviors.
Eric Corbett ?
Nah, that's just a side show. The trick is to just repeatedly "warn" people who push the line you like. That way, you can ramp up the sanctions against people you don't while still having a handy dandy excuse as to the differential.
That's about Tarc, who thumbed his nose at everyone after Manning closed. He's a prick, I don't like him.

RfB
I don't much either, but giving people a pass because their double standards and double dealing activities happen to make things bad for someone you don't like is part of the problem. He's not -that- bad.
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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:57 am

Let's just say that when I call Tarc a troll and a prick whom I do not like, I do so from a basis of personal experience:

linkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =623079770[/link]

linkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =623079770[/link]

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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by thekohser » Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:39 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:Let's just say that when I call Tarc a troll and a prick whom I do not like, I do so from a basis of personal experience...
Would you support Tarc's exile to мутант поп парк, for example?
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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Midsize Jake » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:05 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:Let's just say that when I call Tarc a troll and a prick whom I do not like, I do so from a basis of personal experience: linkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =623079770[/link] linkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =623079770[/link]
But he was right, though, in what he wrote in the redacted material. I can't say I like him much anymore either (though he did at least apologize to me for his behavior while pretending to be a black guy, so good on him for that), but it would be better for everyone here if you didn't descend to this kind of name-calling in a venue from which he's currently unable to participate. It's just poor sportsmanship.

And speaking of sports, Nats vs. Giants Game 1 in just two hours! :)

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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Kiefer.Wolfowitz » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:43 pm

Greg, would you please translate your Cyrillic?

Did not Tarc this year confess that he had been trolling for years, offering an apology?
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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Kelly Martin » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:46 pm

Kiefer.Wolfowitz wrote:Greg, would you please translate your Cyrillic?
No "translation" is needed, merely transliteration.

Try Googling that phrase; the results are fairly amusing.

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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Konveyor Belt » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:10 pm

Why has Salvio abstained in four proposals including two remedies?
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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by thekohser » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:28 pm

Konveyor Belt wrote:Why has Salvio abstained in four proposals including two remedies?
Maybe I am Salvio?
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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Peter Damian » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:50 pm

Kiefer.Wolfowitz wrote: Did not Tarc this year confess that he had been trolling for years, offering an apology?
Links, please!
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =579129334
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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Konveyor Belt » Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:38 pm

thekohser wrote:
Konveyor Belt wrote:Why has Salvio abstained in four proposals including two remedies?
Maybe I am Salvio?
I doubt it, but it would be pretty cool.
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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Notvelty » Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:19 pm

Kiefer.Wolfowitz wrote:Greg, would you please translate your Cyrillic?

Did not Tarc this year confess that he had been trolling for years, offering an apology?
Links, please!
Tarc got a lefty girlfriend. I'd put money on it.
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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:08 am

Midsize Jake wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:Let's just say that when I call Tarc a troll and a prick whom I do not like, I do so from a basis of personal experience: linkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =623079770[/link] linkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =623079770[/link]
But he was right, though, in what he wrote in the redacted material. I can't say I like him much anymore either (though he did at least apologize to me for his behavior while pretending to be a black guy, so good on him for that), but it would be better for everyone here if you didn't descend to this kind of name-calling in a venue from which he's currently unable to participate. It's just poor sportsmanship.

And speaking of sports, Nats vs. Giants Game 1 in just two hours! :)
Bullshit.

This was a transparent attempt to bait me into a "personal attack" on Wiki in the midst of an ArbCom case in which we were both parties.

He only has to write an "I'm sorrrrrrry!!!" email to Zoloft and then that pencil-necked prick and I can have a go at it here. I'd be happy to do that.

Fuck Tarc. He's a 90 proof troll with a 90 IQ.

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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Midsize Jake » Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:24 am

Randy from Boise wrote:He only has to write an "I'm sorrrrrrry!!!" email to Zoloft and then than pencil-necked prick and I can have a go at it here. I'd be happy to do that.
Uh, no.

At the moment, there's no real chance that the people running this site will unsuspend Mr. Tarc's account, and this has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not he apologizes to you or anyone else. You're not the only person here who's unhappy with him.

However, every time you talk shit about him, you increase his sympathy factor, without him having to do anything himself to increase it. Hopefully he doesn't care if we ever unsuspend his account, but either way, you're making it worse (unintentionally, I hope) for those of us who would rather keep things as-is.

So, I'm asking you as one phoney-baloney nice-guy type to another: If you're going to mention him, be the bigger man and leave out the unpleasantries, OK?

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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Zoloft » Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:29 am

Randy from Boise wrote:He only has to write an "I'm sorrrrrrry!!!" email to Zoloft...
Nope.

Trustees would have to order me to reinstate him. Unlikely.

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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:51 am

Midsize Jake wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:He only has to write an "I'm sorrrrrrry!!!" email to Zoloft and then than pencil-necked prick and I can have a go at it here. I'd be happy to do that.
Uh, no.

At the moment, there's no real chance that the people running this site will unsuspend Mr. Tarc's account, and this has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not he apologizes to you or anyone else. You're not the only person here who's unhappy with him.

However, every time you talk shit about him, you increase his sympathy factor, without him having to do anything himself to increase it. Hopefully he doesn't care if we ever unsuspend his account, but either way, you're making it worse (unintentionally, I hope) for those of us who would rather keep things as-is.

So, I'm asking you as one phoney-baloney nice-guy type to another: If you're going to mention him, be the bigger man and leave out the unpleasantries, OK?

Tarc who?



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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by The Devil's Advocate » Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:29 am

Seems Brad made an implied legal threat against Greg or he implied he might make a legal threat some time in the future or something.

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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Notvelty » Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:22 am

The Devil's Advocate wrote:Seems Brad made an implied legal threat against Greg or he implied he might make a legal threat some time in the future or something.
Brad was once a force for good. Now he's reaching Raul Paul levels of delusional.
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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Midsize Jake » Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:26 am

The Devil's Advocate wrote:Seems Brad made an implied legal threat against Greg or he implied he might make a legal threat some time in the future or something.
He's just linking to the thing he wrote before. DFTT.

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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Triptych » Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:55 am

The Devil's Advocate wrote:Seems Brad made an implied legal threat against Greg or he implied he might make a legal threat some time in the future or something.
Brad's using his trademark equivocating phrasing to distance himself from responsibility for his own words, however it's arguably still a violation of the "No Legal Threats" policy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NLT).

"It is important to refrain from making comments that others may reasonably understand as legal threats against them..." Kohser's probably too savvy to be bugged by Brad's invocation of the law of computer misuse, however an average person surely could regard it as a threat.

It's a repeat offense by Brad, who also threatened Kumioko some months ago. Maybe an admin will man up enough to warn him, or perhaps someone will risk dragging him to the WP:AN/ANI cesspool.
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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by thekohser » Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:12 am

Midsize Jake wrote:
The Devil's Advocate wrote:Seems Brad made an implied legal threat against Greg or he implied he might make a legal threat some time in the future or something.
He's just linking to the thing he wrote before. DFTT.
And if you actually read his legalistic blathering, Ira Matetsky mostly concludes that what I do on Wikipedia could hardly rise to a criminal case, and it maybe, just maybe if you squint your eyes at it, could possibly be the focus of a civil lawsuit. If the Wikimedia Foundation ever filed a civil lawsuit against me, I have a few friends who are millionaires who would probably assist me in publicizing the folly the WMF was pursuing, and my counter-suit in the civil action would likely end up costing the Foundation a few million dollars.
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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Peter Damian » Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:34 pm

thekohser wrote:
Midsize Jake wrote:
The Devil's Advocate wrote:Seems Brad made an implied legal threat against Greg or he implied he might make a legal threat some time in the future or something.
He's just linking to the thing he wrote before. DFTT.
And if you actually read his legalistic blathering, Ira Matetsky mostly concludes that what I do on Wikipedia could hardly rise to a criminal case, and it maybe, just maybe if you squint your eyes at it, could possibly be the focus of a civil lawsuit. If the Wikimedia Foundation ever filed a civil lawsuit against me, I have a few friends who are millionaires who would probably assist me in publicizing the folly the WMF was pursuing, and my counter-suit in the civil action would likely end up costing the Foundation a few million dollars.
See the other thread I started on 'absurdity'. This really is one of the stupidest cases by far.
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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Vigilant » Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:29 pm

I will only point out that David Craven is aptly named.
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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Jim » Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:10 pm

Vigilant wrote:I will only point out that David Craven is aptly named.
My best friend is called David.

Daveist. :finger:

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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Vigilant » Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:14 pm

Jim wrote:
Vigilant wrote:I will only point out that David Craven is aptly named.
My best friend is called David.

Daveist. :finger:
You're so weird.
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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Jim » Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:22 pm

Vigilant wrote:
Jim wrote:
Vigilant wrote:I will only point out that David Craven is aptly named.
My best friend is called David.

Daveist. :finger:
You're so weird.
Now that's outing. I draw the line at that.

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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Jim » Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:25 pm

Peter Damian wrote:This really is one of the stupidest cases by far.
I guess they just regretted accepting it in the end, and all they could do was "admonishments" and a punt at banning Tarc.
They're not very clever, as a body, after all, even if some of them are individually.

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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Thracia » Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:40 pm

Jim wrote:
Peter Damian wrote:This really is one of the stupidest cases by far.
I guess they just regretted accepting it in the end, and all they could do was "admonishments" and a punt at banning Tarc.
They're not very clever, as a body, after all, even if some of them are individually.
They're not even admonishments in this case, they are being "warned".

Is there a page somewhere listing all the various scales of "do nothing" at Arbcom's disposal, from "admonish", to "warn", to "tsk quite loudly in their general vicinity", etc.?

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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Vigilant » Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:04 pm

Thracia wrote:
Jim wrote:
Peter Damian wrote:This really is one of the stupidest cases by far.
I guess they just regretted accepting it in the end, and all they could do was "admonishments" and a punt at banning Tarc.
They're not very clever, as a body, after all, even if some of them are individually.
They're not even admonishments in this case, they are being "warned".

Is there a page somewhere listing all the various scales of "do nothing" at Arbcom's disposal, from "admonish", to "warn", to "tsk quite loudly in their general vicinity", etc.?
All euphemisms for "of the body, but we must say *something*"
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Re: 2014 Greg Kohs Case at Arbcom

Unread post by Jim » Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:07 pm

Thracia wrote:
Jim wrote:
Peter Damian wrote:This really is one of the stupidest cases by far.
I guess they just regretted accepting it in the end, and all they could do was "admonishments" and a punt at banning Tarc.
They're not very clever, as a body, after all, even if some of them are individually.
They're not even admonishments in this case, they are being "warned".

Is there a page somewhere listing all the various scales of "do nothing" at Arbcom's disposal, from "admonish", to "warn", to "tsk quite loudly in their general vicinity", etc.?
No, but I think they should adopt "tsk quite loudly in their general vicinity" as an official option.
They are, after all, the gift Monty Python never had. The sketch would have been a classic.

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