Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Discussions on Wikimedia governance
Kauffner
Member
Posts: 4
kołdry
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:43 am
Wikipedia User: Kauffner
Wikipedia Review Member: Kauffner

Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by Kauffner » Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:27 pm

Perhaps the new Arbcom will have a new attitude. Anyway, I'm drafting my appeal. I think I can claim the most extreme shafting: A senior contributor summarily blocked and banned with no specific reason given, no opportunity to defend myself, and apparently based on the accumulation of petty grudges over the years. Or at least that’s what I argue below.


TO: Ban Appeals Subcommittee

Last June, I was a Wikipedia editor with eight years experience, tens of thousands of edits, and a clean record. I had written several “good” articles, DYKs, and contributed to a feature article. Yet I was blocked and banned without warning or due process. Whether my ban can be reversed or not, I’d like to discuss how I was railroaded in the hope that the episode may contain lessons that others can learn.

On July 8 and 11, I was blocked for “edit warring” on an article I wrote called Han-Nom. (The article is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =563875554) I was block for reverted the repeated blanking of this article, something which is specifically permitted under the guidelines. (See [[WP:3RRNO]]). At no point did I exceed the 3RR limit. I was not given a warning prior to either block. This is not only irregular according to Wiki guidelines, but means that I never had a chance to argue my case at ANI. Han-Nom is an extensively sourced article on Sino-Vietnamese characters. I find it hard to believe that it would have been controversial if someone other than me had written it. The involvement of editors not otherwise interested in Vietnam-related topics suggests that the motive was to get back at me over other issues.

Ponyo, a checkuser and oversighter I had never dealt with before, posted a series of comments just before and after blocking me, including several expressing satisfaction at my predicament. He heatedly denied that he was acting in conspiracy with others, although I had not accused him of this. If he was recruited, it occurs to me that an incident in June in which I ticked off EdJohnston might be relevant. Tell Ed I’m sorry I reverted his [[Duc Duc]] move.

My block was made permanent in August by a community ban. (See [[Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Archive252#Ban_proposal:_Kauffner]]) The Han-Nom block prevented me from participating in this discussion, yet the issue is barely mentioned. Writing articles is what Wikipedia is supposed to be all about. It is perverse that this article could be used against me.

Disciplinary discussions I have read on typically consist of allegations, diffs to support these allegations, and a discussion of the seriousness of the alleged misbehavior. But there is nothing like that in my case. There is one clueless post that accuses me of multiple voting in RMs, and another one that cites a parody I posted on my user page back in May. I take it these two editors were not in the loop. Otherwise, there are no specific allegations, much less diffs to support them.

Cuchullain was the admin most active in seeking to get me banned or sanctioned. In the banning discussion, he writes that I, “dodged sanctions so many times before” and that I “have been disruptive for years.” In other words, the editors who banned me considered the discussion to be a continuation of earlier disputes. These earlier disputes were about Vietnamese diacritics, not Han-Nom or edit warring. As I was able to defend myself on these occasions, none of them resulted in a block, ban, or other sanction. So blocking me prior the discussion was essential to allow a different result.

Let me back up at this point and explain some history. In July and August of 2011, there was an RFC on diacritics with a very large participation. (See [[Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(use_English)/Diacritics_RfC]]) This RFC proposed that Wikipedia follow the style of Britannica and National Geographic. Although these two sources represent the most diacritic-friendly styles models that the authors of the proposal could come up with, neither uses Vietnamese diacritics. Such diacritics are “distracting,” according to National Geographic’s Style Manual. (See http://stylemanual.ngs.org/home/A/accent-marks). The proposal was opposed by editors who considered it too diacritics friendly, and it was finally defeated in a hotly contested vote. Although the discussion suggested that opinion was divided on the issue of diacritics in general, I interpreted it as an indication that a consensus existed with respect to Vietnamese diacritics. I then rewrote [[Naming conventions (Vietnamese)]] and moved various articles to comply. This version of the guideline that I wrote was in effect throughout this controversy. In fact, it was not rewritten until Sept. 2.

“Follow the general usage in reliable sources that are written in the English language (including other encyclopedias and reference works),” according to WP:DIACRITICS. The purpose of a title is to tell the reader the common name of a subject. The common name plus a French or German accent mark is still pretty close to the common name. But Vietnamese diacritics are more intense than those of any other language.

No major reference work uses Vietnamese diacritics, as you can see from this chart: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =558512069. The Chicago Manual of Style recommends following the spellings given in the various Merriam-Webster dictionaries, so note the column on the far right. In my opinion, a well-regarded overview of the broad subject one is writing about should also be consulted. (This approach is supported by WP:WIAN, third point.) In the case of Vietnam, that would include works like Cambridge History of Southeast Asia (1993) and Shelton Woods’ Vietnam: An Illustrated History (2002). None of the considerations I've mentioned would suggest the use of Vietnamese diacritics.

When a publication has Vietnamese writers and a primarily Vietnamese readership, it would easier for everyone involved if the diacritics were left in. Yet every English-language news site in Vietnam drops them out. Why? Because the point of such sites is to model conventional language usage, not to promote Viet-lish. The most widely read of these sites is Voice of Vietnam (http://english.vov.vn). The site’s international style and lack of localisms are selling points, even though the readership is overwhelmingly Vietnamese.

In ictu oculi and I once worked as a team, translating Hebrew and Latin titles in English. But Arbcom’s decision to sanction GoodDay over diacritics in June 2012 changed all that. (See [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GoodDay]]) This decision effectively turned the diacritics area into a free-fire zone. The Vietnam project had been my pond up to this point. But IIO and other editors soon arrived and turned it into a hotly contested area. IIO, who has an extraordinary amount of time and energy to devote to this issue, researched my edit history and wrote lengthy complaints day after day, often presenting old moves as fresh outrages. To me, these complaints were transparently vindictive, harassment and provocation done in the hope of getting a scalp and because it had worked with GoodDay. I was blocked by MSGJ in July 2012 in response to one such complaint. On this occasion, Jenks24 intervened on my behalf. Unfortunately, Jenks24 stopped editing in April 2013.

This RFC may give you a sense of IIO’s methods: [[Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(Vietnamese)/Archive_2#RfC_on_spelling]]. It is filled with pictures galleries, heated attacks on the validity of the RFC, bitter recriminations, and other disruptive tactics. Each post sounds more angry than the last. IIO later posted a series of Vietnam-related requests. I call these “attack RMs," since their focus was on bashing me rather than on article titles. Bullies who are not necessarily concerned with the underlying style issue are attracted to this area by IIO’s aggression. This has triggered a sequence of anti-social behavior, forcing a series of editors to leave Wikipedia, including MakeSense, LittleBenW, and JoshuSasori.

---User:Kauffner

User avatar
Mason
Habitué
Posts: 2273
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:27 am

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by Mason » Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:45 pm

Kauffner wrote:I'm drafting my appeal.
Are you one of the ones battling to take the diacritics out, or battling to put them in?

(I'm sure that's covered in the links you provided, but an executive summary might be helpful for those of us short on time and interest in such battles.)

User avatar
Poetlister
Genius
Posts: 25599
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:15 pm
Nom de plume: Poetlister
Location: London, living in a similar way
Contact:

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by Poetlister » Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:27 pm

Welcome, Kauffner. Diacritics are a splendid example of things that too many editors obsess about when they could be doing something useful.
"The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche

Kauffner
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:43 am
Wikipedia User: Kauffner
Wikipedia Review Member: Kauffner

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by Kauffner » Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:36 pm

I oppose diacritics in a series of RMs dealing with eastern European hockey and tennis players last year. Perhaps that's what attracted all this attention. The Vietnam Project is otherwise a quiet corner of Wikipedia. At that time, there was an admin who protected me. When he left, the knives came out.

User avatar
TungstenCarbide
Habitué
Posts: 2592
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:51 am
Wikipedia User: TungstenCarbide
Wikipedia Review Member: TungstenCarbide

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by TungstenCarbide » Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:31 pm

Welcome Kauffner!

Here's an older thread on diacritics for reference.
Gone hiking. also, beware of women with crazy head gear and a dagger.

User avatar
Randy from Boise
Been Around Forever
Posts: 12083
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:32 am
Wikipedia User: Carrite
Wikipedia Review Member: Timbo
Actual Name: Tim Davenport
Nom de plume: T. Chandler
Location: Boise, Idaho

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:42 pm

Diacritics warring is advanced level Manual of Style (MOS) kookiness — surpassed only by the dumbasses that fight over dash size.

I'm pretty sure there's a mental illness component if one were to examine the extreme MOS warriors closely.

RfB

EricBarbour
 
Posts: 10891
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:32 pm
Location: hell

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by EricBarbour » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:20 pm

Welcome to the "dark side", Kauffner. You've just written a good post for Wikipediocracy's blog. This is premium material.

User avatar
Alison
Habitué
Posts: 1074
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:28 pm
Wikipedia User: Alison
Wikipedia Review Member: Alison
Actual Name: Alison Cassidy
Location: Cupertino, CA, USA ... maybe
Contact:

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by Alison » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:40 pm

EricBarbour wrote:Welcome to the "dark side", Kauffner. You've just written a good post for Wikipediocracy's blog. This is premium material.
One minor data point; Ponyo happens to be a woman.
-- Allie

User avatar
Kiefer.Wolfowitz
Gregarious
Posts: 956
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:25 pm
Wikipedia User: Kiefer.Wolfowitz
Contact:

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by Kiefer.Wolfowitz » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:56 pm

LittleBenW (T-C-L) disliked diacritics, while I support diacritics, which are part of canonical English (as in William Blake's "The Nurse's Song"). The keypoint is that I disagreed with him.

LittleBen's leaving of a message on my talkpage was latter cited as canvassing---despite our disagreements---in a decision to block him indefinitely.

Ben repeatedly hurt himself, but I wish that others could have tried discussing diacritics with him, as I did.

(LittleBenW had the signature "LittleBen", btw.)

The WikiProjects WP:U.S. Roads (T-H-L) and WP:MOS (T-H-L) should jointly sponsor a WP:WikiProject Diacritics in road-signs (T-H-L)!
Last edited by Kiefer.Wolfowitz on Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kiefer.Wolfowitz (T-C-L)
You run into assholes all day; you're the asshole.

Lukeno94
Gregarious
Posts: 710
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:34 pm
Wikipedia User: Lukeno94

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by Lukeno94 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:59 pm

Kauffner, your appeal will fail due to the catalogue of sockpuppets listed here, some of which are a couple of weeks old. I'm interested to note that no part of your statement at the top makes any mention of this; not even a denial.

User avatar
greyed.out.fields
Gregarious
Posts: 873
Joined: Thu May 31, 2012 10:59 am
Wikipedia User: I AM your guilty pleasure
Actual Name: Written addiction
Location: Back alley hang-up

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by greyed.out.fields » Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:52 am

Lukeno94 wrote:Kauffner, your appeal will fail due to the catalogue of sockpuppets listed here, some of which are a couple of weeks old. I'm interested to note that no part of your statement at the top makes any mention of this; not even a denial.
What Luke said (and not "And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed", though it is that time of year.)

I (and I suspect many others) would support your un-banning, if you gave an undertaking not to go near diacritics.

I doubt you would be able to make that undertaking.
a cien años de soledad no tenían una segunda oportunidad en la tierra

User avatar
Tippi Hadron
Queen
Posts: 933
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:15 am
Wikipedia User: DracoEssentialis
Actual Name: Monika Nathalie Collida Kolbe

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by Tippi Hadron » Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:43 am

Kauffner, aren't you the smelly little runt who edit-warred over a hateful "essay" featured on your user page back in May? You know, your "thoughts" about Amanda Filipacchi? All mercifully oversighted, and no great loss. But don't worry, screenshots were taken. They should have banned you back then. The sooner you take your sorry self out of here the better.

User avatar
greyed.out.fields
Gregarious
Posts: 873
Joined: Thu May 31, 2012 10:59 am
Wikipedia User: I AM your guilty pleasure
Actual Name: Written addiction
Location: Back alley hang-up

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by greyed.out.fields » Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:07 am

Tippi Hadron wrote:Kauffner, aren't you the smelly little runt who edit-warred over a hateful "essay" featured on your user page back in May? You know, your "thoughts" about Amanda Filipacchi? All mercifully oversighted, and no great loss. But don't worry, screenshots were taken. They should have banned you back then. The sooner you take your sorry self out of here the better.
Rev-del actually, so admins can view it.
greyed.out.fields wrote:I (and I suspect many others) would support your un-banning, if you gave an undertaking not to go near diacritics.
That should now read "I wouldn't support your un-banning, whatever the hell you said."

Thanks for the heads-up, Tippi. (I think you were smashing in "Marnie", btw.)
a cien años de soledad no tenían una segunda oportunidad en la tierra

User avatar
Tippi Hadron
Queen
Posts: 933
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:15 am
Wikipedia User: DracoEssentialis
Actual Name: Monika Nathalie Collida Kolbe

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by Tippi Hadron » Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:34 am

greyed.out.fields wrote:
greyed.out.fields wrote:I (and I suspect many others) would support your un-banning, if you gave an undertaking not to go near diacritics.
That should now read "I wouldn't support your un-banning, whatever the hell you said."

Thanks for the heads-up, Tippi. (I think you were smashing in "Marnie", btw.)
Ta very much, luv'. Long-time fan of yours, too.

Lukeno94
Gregarious
Posts: 710
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:34 pm
Wikipedia User: Lukeno94

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by Lukeno94 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:25 am

I'd almost forgotten about the userpage debacle, but yeah, I remember now; there was also this MfD debate, which I started in March. So the userpage is actually even worse than the RevDelled bits, because there were many revisions that were completely deleted.

User avatar
Tippi Hadron
Queen
Posts: 933
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:15 am
Wikipedia User: DracoEssentialis
Actual Name: Monika Nathalie Collida Kolbe

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by Tippi Hadron » Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:51 pm

Lukeno94 wrote:I'd almost forgotten about the userpage debacle, but yeah, I remember now; there was also this MfD debate, which I started in March. So the userpage is actually even worse than the RevDelled bits, because there were many revisions that were completely deleted.
Good job, Luke!

I just clicked on the first diff provided by bobrayner (one of the good guys in my book) in that MfD, and, my, what a revelation.

Gang, meet Peter Kauffner:

Image

Image

So, Peter Kauffner, I guess you can count yourself lucky that I am busy elsewhere right now. But I am sure some of my friends on here will delight in digging up more about you and your imperialist-inspired past. You obviously enjoy teaching English to delicately-boned brown people of the female persuasion. And what's with combining white socks and shorts? Not once but repeatedly? Girlfiend, please, I'm already thisclose to losing my will to live. Anything else you want to tell us before we do the work for you?

enwikibadscience
Habitué
Posts: 1423
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 pm

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by enwikibadscience » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:05 pm

Tippi Hadron wrote:
Lukeno94 wrote:I'd almost forgotten about the userpage debacle, but yeah, I remember now; there was also this MfD debate, which I started in March. So the userpage is actually even worse than the RevDelled bits, because there were many revisions that were completely deleted.
Good job, Luke!

I just clicked on the first diff provided by bobrayner (one of the good guys in my book) in that MfD, and, my, what a revelation.

Gang, meet Peter Kauffner:

Image

Image

So, Peter Kauffner, I guess you can count yourself lucky that I am busy elsewhere right now. But I am sure some of my friends on here will delight in digging up more about you and your imperialist-inspired past. You obviously enjoy teaching English to delicately-boned brown people of the female persuasion. And what's with combining white socks and shorts? Not once but repeatedly? Girlfiend, please, I'm already thisclose to losing my will to live. Anything else you want to tell us before we do the work for you?
I think the user page is silly, but this just seems personal in an unenlightening way. White socks and shorts in public when people are making up information in science articles is like American interparty squabbling--can't find anything really wrong, so go after the socks or spouse.

Kauffner
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:43 am
Wikipedia User: Kauffner
Wikipedia Review Member: Kauffner

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by Kauffner » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:07 pm

While it never generated the level of outrage that my Han-Nom article did, I see that there is a certain amount interest in my Filipacchi essay as well:

[Still redacted.]
Last edited by HRIP7 on Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Reason: Still no interest. Try posting it on Wikipedia.

Kauffner
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:43 am
Wikipedia User: Kauffner
Wikipedia Review Member: Kauffner

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by Kauffner » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:40 pm

There are tons and tons of my stuff out there if anyone is actually interested. My thoughts on the JFK assassination were published in the Washington Times: http://www.beyondweird.com/conspiracies/kauffner.html. Here is what I have to say about Star Trek and physics: http://www.mndaily.com/1996/11/21/physi ... -star-trek. The sad tale of how endangered Vietnamese animals are treated? That's over here: http://www.vietnamheritage.com.vn/pages ... scued.html.

User avatar
Poetlister
Genius
Posts: 25599
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:15 pm
Nom de plume: Poetlister
Location: London, living in a similar way
Contact:

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by Poetlister » Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:54 pm

Strangely, there is no grave accent in either the Keynes or the Stevenson edition of Blake's complete poems.
"The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche

User avatar
Triptych
Retired
Posts: 1910
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:35 am
Wikipedia User: it's alliterative

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by Triptych » Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:04 pm

Tippi Hadron wrote:Kauffner, aren't you the smelly little runt who edit-warred over a hateful "essay" featured on your user page back in May? You know, your "thoughts" about Amanda Filipacchi? All mercifully oversighted, and no great loss. But don't worry, screenshots were taken. They should have banned you back then. The sooner you take your sorry self out of here the better.
Was it the essay Kauffner quotes a couple or three posts down? It doesn't seem all that "hateful" really, not to agree with it. I would say it has a sarcastically critical tone and is unsuitable to post on Wikipedia because why? It's not a draft article. If it were to go anywhere, it could go into the debate about "women authors" into their own category segregate from "authors" category, where it would be seen as uncivil, but I would not say "hateful." I don't know if such things warrant oversighting or even rev-deleting, maybe just simply deleting them but leaving in the history for transparency.

I'm not taking Kauffner's side Tippi, but your comment just seemed a bit sharp to me.

PS: loved you in The Byrds and that diet drink commercial. ;)
Triptych. A Live Journal I have under other pseudonym, w. email address: Tim Song Fan. My Arbcom Accountability Project: in German. In art.

User avatar
Zoloft
Trustee
Posts: 13984
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:54 pm
Wikipedia User: Stanistani
Wikipedia Review Member: Zoloft
Actual Name: William Burns
Nom de plume: William Burns
Location: San Diego
Contact:

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by Zoloft » Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:24 pm

Mr. Kauffner is temporarily unavailable for comment at this time. Please try again later.
♪♫
*cheerful instrumental music plays*

Anroth
Nice Scum
Posts: 3034
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 3:51 pm

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by Anroth » Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:19 pm

And they say we have no standards.......

Lukeno94
Gregarious
Posts: 710
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:34 pm
Wikipedia User: Lukeno94

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by Lukeno94 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:26 pm

Interesting how Kauffner still hasn't commented on the issues of the sockpuppet investigation, and the earlier userpage debate.

User avatar
The Joy
Habitué
Posts: 2606
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:20 am
Wikipedia Review Member: The Joy

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by The Joy » Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:06 pm

Lukeno94 wrote:Interesting how Kauffner still hasn't commented on the issues of the sockpuppet investigation, and the earlier userpage debate.
Zoloft wrote:Mr. Kauffner is temporarily unavailable for comment at this time. Please try again later.
♪♫
*cheerful instrumental music plays*
"In the long run, volunteers are the most expensive workers you'll ever have." -Red Green

"Is it your thesis that my avatar in this MMPONWMG was mugged?" -Moulton

EricBarbour
 
Posts: 10891
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:32 pm
Location: hell

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by EricBarbour » Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:18 pm

The Joy wrote:
Lukeno94 wrote:Interesting how Kauffner still hasn't commented on the issues of the sockpuppet investigation, and the earlier userpage debate.
Zoloft wrote:Mr. Kauffner is temporarily unavailable for comment at this time. Please try again later.
♪♫
*cheerful instrumental music plays*
Now, that's how you block annoying people -- with style! :D

User avatar
SB_Johnny
Habitué
Posts: 4640
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:26 am
Wikipedia User: SB_Johnny
Wikipedia Review Member: SB_Johnny

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by SB_Johnny » Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:34 pm

EricBarbour wrote:Now, that's how you block annoying people -- with style! :D
Points for style duly awarded.

:twilightzone:
This is not a signature.

Lukeno94
Gregarious
Posts: 710
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:34 pm
Wikipedia User: Lukeno94

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by Lukeno94 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:48 pm

The Joy wrote:
Lukeno94 wrote:Interesting how Kauffner still hasn't commented on the issues of the sockpuppet investigation, and the earlier userpage debate.
Zoloft wrote:Mr. Kauffner is temporarily unavailable for comment at this time. Please try again later.
♪♫
*cheerful instrumental music plays*
Yeah, I'd seen that - but I was referring to the posts that presumably lead to the block.

satorukun0530
Contributor
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:45 am
Wikipedia User: hijiri88

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by satorukun0530 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:04 pm

I'm one of the users who conflicted with Kauffner before he was banned. I don't give a damn about diacritics, and just wanted articles on Japanese literature, cinema and history to be well-written and titled according to reliable English-language sources (not what some English teacher in Vietnam thinks they should be titled). In most cases when the subject is not well-known in the English speaking world this means using Hepburn romanization (the same as all the academic works and encyclopedia articles written by specialists), which necessarily involves macrons and apostrophes.

Kauffner, on the other hand, was obsessed with removing diacritics at any opportunity, even in completely insane cases, and apparently took my occasional disagreement with him personally.

I wasn't going to post here, except that I noticed my cyberstalker JoshuSasori was "forced to leave because of anti-social behaviour", with a failure to mention that it was his anti-social behaviour that led to him being driven off. His leaving had nothing whatsoever to do with diacritics: he was banned for making real-world threats against me after a month-long campaign of reverting my edits on a wide-range of articles, seldom giving much of a reason. I have since grown sick of other users of his ilk doing the same thing, which is why I've dropped off Wikipedia for the last two months.

And I also suspect Kauffner is the one responsible for posting my personal information on Vietnamese Wikipedia.

Anyway, I took the liberty of sleuthing a bit in response to Tippi Hadron's post above. I decided to see what business Kauffner, who apparently doesn't even speak modern Japanese, has reverting my edits to articles on classical Japanese literature. Googling "Peter Kauffner" Japan didn't bring up a whole lot of promising results to support his tenuous claim to knowing more about, for instance, Ugetsu Monogatari, than I do, but some other results were ... interesting, to say the least ...

User avatar
Poetlister
Genius
Posts: 25599
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:15 pm
Nom de plume: Poetlister
Location: London, living in a similar way
Contact:

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by Poetlister » Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:19 pm

Welcome, satorukun0530. I don't think people here wil accuse you of stalking.
"The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche

satorukun0530
Contributor
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:45 am
Wikipedia User: hijiri88

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by satorukun0530 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:32 pm

Poetlister wrote:Welcome, satorukun0530. I don't think people here wil accuse you of stalking.
I can't tell if this is meant to be sarcastic...

Ubikwit
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:09 pm
Wikipedia User: Ubikwit

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by Ubikwit » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:53 am

Good point.
The information you posted is interesting, and it seems obvious that the acts of blanket deleting diacritics should be considered vandalism in many cases.
It seems that his focus was on Vietnamese, so why target Japanese, too? Especially in the case of pronunciation of words in the same language from a different era, particularly literary works, and even more particularly poetry, there is ample reason for being interested in the sound of speech.

User avatar
Poetlister
Genius
Posts: 25599
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:15 pm
Nom de plume: Poetlister
Location: London, living in a similar way
Contact:

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by Poetlister » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:25 pm

satorukun0530 wrote:
Poetlister wrote:Welcome, satorukun0530. I don't think people here will accuse you of stalking.
I can't tell if this is meant to be sarcastic...
No, deathly serious. If you posted that on Wikipedia, you'd get lynched for stalking.
"The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche

Arithmancer
Contributor
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:58 pm

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by Arithmancer » Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:00 am

Poetlister wrote:
satorukun0530 wrote:
Poetlister wrote:Welcome, satorukun0530. I don't think people here will accuse you of stalking.
I can't tell if this is meant to be sarcastic...
No, deathly serious. If you posted that on Wikipedia, you'd get lynched for stalking.
Yes, well that's right, but of course that's the fault of Wikipedia. Satorukun0530 had his address published on the Vietnamese wiki. That's a pretty outrageous (and dangerous, given the passion this issue seems to inspire) provocation. Looking at Tippi's post above, it's clear this character Peter Kauffner is a major creep of the first order. Pretty sure the Wikipedia community got this one right. And that Amazon review is so typical of the personality involved here. People like that never give over, never give up.

[I did it. I "signed" with four tildes - time for some rehab :deadhorse: ]

[[But why just there? :yikes: - god, these smilies are cute]]

enwikibadscience
Habitué
Posts: 1423
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 pm

Re: Time for a diacritics amnesty?

Unread post by enwikibadscience » Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:59 pm

Arithmancer wrote:
Poetlister wrote:
satorukun0530 wrote:
Poetlister wrote:Welcome, satorukun0530. I don't think people here will accuse you of stalking.
I can't tell if this is meant to be sarcastic...
No, deathly serious. If you posted that on Wikipedia, you'd get lynched for stalking.
Yes, well that's right, but of course that's the fault of Wikipedia. Satorukun0530 had his address published on the Vietnamese wiki. That's a pretty outrageous (and dangerous, given the passion this issue seems to inspire) provocation. Looking at Tippi's post above, it's clear this character Peter Kauffner is a major creep of the first order. Pretty sure the Wikipedia community got this one right. And that Amazon review is so typical of the personality involved here. People like that never give over, never give up.

[I did it. I "signed" with four tildes - time for some rehab :deadhorse: ]

[[But why just there? :yikes: - god, these smilies are cute]]
But the opening on that Amazon review was a solid indicator not to read it. Something similar on wikipedia would get half the boys up in support.

After my outing, I realize it is not so passionate unless, as usual, an insider needs support on the issue.

Post Reply