Wikipediocracy

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... al_attacks

I need to see more statements, before making up my mind; however, at first glance, there are two aspects that IMHO should be emphasised. First, while IRC is technically off-wiki, in my opinion, it's different from sites such as Wikipediocracy, because IRC has strong ties to the community that other sites lack. And, second, Ironholds, you are an admin (and a Foundation employee), so you really should know better. Salvio Let's talk about it! 00:11, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

neved wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... al_attacks

I need to see more statements, before making up my mind; however, at first glance, there are two aspects that IMHO should be emphasised. First, while IRC is technically off-wiki, in my opinion, it's different from sites such as Wikipediocracy, because IRC has strong ties to the community that other sites lack. And, second, Ironholds, you are an admin (and a Foundation employee), so you really should know better. Salvio Let's talk about it! 00:11, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Ironholds is an idiot who ought to be sacked. But he won't be.

A second mistake was arguably being dumb enough to assume that a prohibition on public logging was something people with the trust of the community would follow.

Every time you prevent information from being FREEEE!!!! God kills a puppy, Mr. Keyes of the Wikimedia Foundation.

Sheesh. The more I see of young Mr. Keyes, the less I like:

@Salvio: the argument of "you're a WMF employee, you should know better" is something I find troubling. Staffers should certainly be held to standards of decorum, in their role as staff and by staff. The joke was made in my personal capacity (I do not maintain membership of that channel in my role as a staffer). Were it made in my professional capacity, that would be a matter for HR, not for the arbitration committee, and it seems an inappropriate thing for an arbitrator to be factoring in. Ironholds (talk) 00:39, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

I'm a spokesman for the WMF, but in my off time on an admin channel, I behave like a complete fuckwit!

Can't you fools see the difference?

Must be that "bipolar/autistic/asperger's/IQ of 145" shit acting up again.

Vigilant wrote:I'm a spokesman for the WMF, but in my off time on an admin channel, I behave like a complete fuckwit!

Can't you fools see the difference?

Must be that "bipolar/autistic/asperger's/IQ of 145" shit acting up again.

...and #wikipedia-en-help, and #wikipedia-en.

Vigilant wrote:I'm a spokesman for the WMF, but in my off time on an admin channel, I behave like a complete fuckwit!

Can't you fools see the difference?

Must be that "bipolar/autistic/asperger's/IQ of 145" shit acting up again.

In my much younger days, I was tasked with an important project for a large company. It was a difficult project to implement, in that it "trod on some toes" and required that some very powerful people accept some changes to the status quo. I found it hard to reconcile my own perceived sense of self importance at being given this task with the reality of it all. It was the first time I had been required to interact in such "exalted" circles.

So one day, in the pub after work, I got drunk, went on a huge rant, and told everyone who would listen how I felt about these obstructive pillars of the establishment, and how they wouldn't be allowed to "stand in my way".

Well, I was "right", they weren't allowed to do that, and "my" project was implemented.

It took me a couple of years to properly understand why I never got given another similar project to champion for that company, and why I ended up having to leave and find a position elsewhere in order to get the career advancement I desired.

We live, we learn...

Jim wrote:... It took me a couple of years to properly understand why I never got given another similar project to champion for that company, and why I ended up having to leave and find a position elsewhere in order to get the career advancement I desired.

We live, we learn...

heh, discretion is one of those requirements for certain positions that if you have to be told, you're not ready.

TungstenCarbide wrote:

Jim wrote:... It took me a couple of years to properly understand why I never got given another similar project to champion for that company, and why I ended up having to leave and find a position elsewhere in order to get the career advancement I desired.

We live, we learn...

heh, discretion is one of those requirements for certain positions that if you have to be told, you're not ready.

It's not even that.
The total lack of a real human resource department means that hiring at WMF is down to, "Hey! I know a guy!" type of shit.

Anyone with an HR background looking into Oliver Keyes background would have completely and utterly disqualified him from being accepted into ANY customer facing position.

By his OWN ADMISSION, he's bipolar, autistic and has Aperger's.
What. The. Fuck?

What company on earth would hire anyone like that for a PR role?
In the real world, that would be grounds for terminating the hiring manager.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: ... al_attacks
This is quite the unbelievable statement.

Ironholds wrote:I haven't, to my knowledge, been a party to one of these before (I think there was one situation in which I was asked to provide a statement for....totally bemusing reasons. Anyway.) so apologies if I'm doing this wrong somehow.

This is such a non serious thing. I am above the law.
I so rarely descend to the mortal plane...

Ironholds wrote:What we have here is, frankly, a case of two users who simply don't get on. Nothing more, nothing less. What alters the situation is the presence of off-wiki venues of discussion.

Never mind that I am one of them and am an employee of the venue wherein this is being discussed.
Further, I have expressed public contempt for one of the founders who is currently on the board of directors.
Even better, I proudly sneer at all and sundry while serving as a contract employee with a Public Relations role.

Ironholds wrote:From my perspective, in response to a disagreement on Wikipedia, Kiefer went to Wikipediocracy and made some (frankly, loathsome) personal comments about me - I'm not going to link them, since anyone wanting to look can find them easily enough. Somewhat vexed by these - as is, I think, understandable, if you've seen them - I made a rather morbid and snarky joke in a private channel on IRC. Anyone who has dealt with me regularly will know that my sense of humour is somewhat dark and dry; my mistake was not realising at the time that, of course, there are many individuals who don't deal with me regularly.

As a Public Relations person, I have incredibly thin skin and a desire for revenge that completely overrides my employer's needs and desires. I do what I want, you don't know me!

Ironholds wrote:A second mistake was arguably being dumb enough to assume that a prohibition on public logging was something people with the trust of the community would follow.

I'm annoyed that I got caught.
It's like those pesky camera phones that keep busting the police during "assault under color of authority" situations.

Ironholds wrote:In response to my response to Kiefer's commentary, Kiefer struck out, this time on-wiki, for which he was blocked.

The rules are for little people.

Ironholds wrote:Shortly after he was unblocked, with a rationale that basically stated that (1) my off-wiki statements fell under the gaze of the administrators, and (2) since his statements were reactionary they were (while inadvisable) ultimately provoked; he should behave better in future, but not be blocked. This is rather frustrating given that precisely the same situation was true in reverse; Kiefer made unpleasant off-wiki comments about me, and I reacted. The difference was that my statements were taken into account and his weren't.

Why, oh why, do I have to deal with these little people?

Ironholds wrote:I have no idea if this is something the Arbitration Committee has any business sticking their noses in - I haven't reviewed arbcom policy for quite some time - or, given the nest of snakes that one of the off-wiki venues constitutes, whether it's even something they want to stick their noses in.

I am untouchable, bitches!

Ironholds wrote:Ultimately, however, this is a problem of ambiguity in the answers to two questions:

I'm going to frame the questions for you, since you're too dumb to do this for yourself.
Please respond only to my strawmen.

Ironholds wrote:Is conduct in off-wiki venues seen as something that can be sanctioned on-wiki, uniformly, regardless of what that off-wiki location is?

All external venues are the same and should apply for all people, regardless of their roles on wikipedia.
Never mind that I am paid to be a public face of the WMF and completely ignore my abysmal history.

Ironholds wrote:If so, is it inappropriate in and of itself, or stacked on to other actions, as the existing personal attacks policy would suggest?
Thanks. Ironholds (talk) 23:50, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

I sure wish we could get back to the good, old days where anyone logging and posting my actions on IRC was grounds for immediately blocking (on the admin channel of all places! the cheek!) obviating the need for me to respond to their stupid and petty concerns.
On the other hand, external criticism sites must be scraped assiduously to ascertain the identities of the unclean so we can cast them even further from our hallowed shores!

Why won't the sacred inquisitors stop looking at me?

TungstenCarbide wrote:

Jim wrote:... It took me a couple of years to properly understand why I never got given another similar project to champion for that company, and why I ended up having to leave and find a position elsewhere in order to get the career advancement I desired.

We live, we learn...

heh, discretion is one of those requirements for certain positions that if you have to be told, you're not ready.

Indeed.

I'm glad, in retrospect, that I was able and allowed to learn it relatively painlessly - I might not have been so lucky - some aren't.

Vigilant wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: ... al_attacks
This is quite the unbelievable statement

<snip great analysis>

Why won't the sacred inquisitors stop looking at me?

You precisely echo my own reaction to that pile of self-serving drivel he posted.

I'll correct my earlier cliche:

We all live, some of us learn, some of us are forced to learn, and some of us, sadly, resist all learning because we must never be "wrong".

I'm pretty sure that Ironholds was the admin that gave me (out of the blue) auto-reviewed status, which felt like a huge honor and has proven to be a real stress-lessener and a boon to my work at WP. So I'm not gonna be the one to talk shit about him.

RfB

Randy from Boise wrote:I'm pretty sure that Ironholds was the admin that gave me (out of the blue) auto-reviewed status, which felt like a huge honor and has proven to be a real stress-lessener and a boon to my work at WP. So I'm not gonna be the one to talk shit about him.

RfB

See Quisling (T-H-L) and Nepotism (T-H-L).

Vigilant wrote:

Randy from Boise wrote:I'm pretty sure that Ironholds was the admin that gave me (out of the blue) auto-reviewed status, which felt like a huge honor and has proven to be a real stress-lessener and a boon to my work at WP. So I'm not gonna be the one to talk shit about him.

RfB

See Quisling (T-H-L) and Nepotism (T-H-L).

See Loyalty (T-H-L) and Respect (T-H-L).

RfB

Randy from Boise wrote:I'm pretty sure that Ironholds was the admin that gave me (out of the blue) auto-reviewed status, which felt like a huge honor and has proven to be a real stress-lessener and a boon to my work at WP. So I'm not gonna be the one to talk shit about him.

RfB

Thank you for demonstrating so clearly your lack of a spine.

thekohser wrote:

Randy from Boise wrote:I'm pretty sure that Ironholds was the admin that gave me (out of the blue) auto-reviewed status, which felt like a huge honor and has proven to be a real stress-lessener and a boon to my work at WP. So I'm not gonna be the one to talk shit about him.

RfB

Thank you for demonstrating so clearly your lack of a spine.

You do what you want; until Keyes does something to me or my friends, I'm not going there. He was nice to me once.

RfB

Randy from Boise wrote:

thekohser wrote:

Randy from Boise wrote:I'm pretty sure that Ironholds was the admin that gave me (out of the blue) auto-reviewed status, which felt like a huge honor and has proven to be a real stress-lessener and a boon to my work at WP. So I'm not gonna be the one to talk shit about him.

RfB

Thank you for demonstrating so clearly your lack of a spine.

You do what you want; until Keyes does something to me or my friends, I'm not going there. He was nice to me once.

RfB

Are you that short of real friends?

In the words of Garth,

Oliver Keyes is nobody's friend. If Oliver Keyes were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick.

Bottom line is this: if you all were making a 100 point compendium of everything that is bent, twisted, or broken about WP, Oliver Keyes and his failed efforts at a joke wouldn't even crack the list.

RfB

Randy from Boise wrote:

thekohser wrote:

Randy from Boise wrote:I'm pretty sure that Ironholds was the admin that gave me (out of the blue) auto-reviewed status, which felt like a huge honor and has proven to be a real stress-lessener and a boon to my work at WP. So I'm not gonna be the one to talk shit about him.

RfB

Thank you for demonstrating so clearly your lack of a spine.

You do what you want; until Keyes does something to me or my friends, I'm not going there. He was nice to me once.

RfB

So therefor he gets a free card to do anything ...to anyone?
Seriously, I would not like to have friends who treated me this way!

Randy from Boise wrote:Bottom line is this: if you all were making a 100 point compendium of everything that is bent, twisted, or broken about WP, Oliver Keyes and his failed efforts at a joke wouldn't even crack the list.

RfB

It isn't his "joke".
His "joke" is only the latest shitheel thing he's done.
He's a long term, serial dickmitten who is about to get the Fae/Qworty/LGR treatment.

This is made ever more delicious due to his employment situation.

I find his mandated and vigilant(HA!) defense of the complete cowpat of a software project, the VisualEditor aka the EditorEnema, to be so sublimely apropos that I must suppose that somewhere a minor godling of mischief and irony has worked his masterpiece upon human existence and now rests upon his laurels basking in the adulation of all the other entities in his pantheon.

He is supposed to be a public face for the WMF and he is ROUTINELY found to be behaving like a petulant child with a handgun.
If there is anyone even remotely competent in the managerial ranks, then he is not long for the WMF.
Of course, given the current evidence for said competence, he's probably picking out a pension and a retirement villa.

The Adversary wrote: So therefor he gets a free card to do anything ...to anyone?
Seriously, I would not like to have friends who treated me this way!

Show us what he's done.

Is he a libertine with the block button? Not that I'm aware.

Does he run to mommy every time something goes wrong for him? Not that I'm aware.

Does he start lynch mobs? Throw gasoline on the fire? Not that I'm aware.

Is he one of The Usual Suspects at Commons? I must have missed it...

He works for The Company, spouts the company line, and is catty on IRC. Which is, what, a minor misdemeanor?

RfB

Here's another very dumb person.

Statement by Resolute
With respect to Salvio's opinion, if Fram intends to begin blocking for comments made on IRC, he had better be prepared to begin blocking for comments made on Wikipediocracy. Both Kiefer and Ironholds have their forums to vent and complain about other editors. Treat them equally, or ignore them equally and base decisions on on-wiki behaviour. Resolute 03:03, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Let me try to spell this out for you hockey-sped.
I'll type slowly since I am pretty sure you don't read well.

Let's see if you can spot the differences, mkay?
Which one of these two editors:
* Is an admin?
* Posts threats in an IRC venue that Jimmy has said is part of wikipedia's purview?
* Works for the WMF in a Public Relations role?

If you got all three right then you might be able to fill in the blank below.

________________ has a fiduciary duty to keep his dick in his pants when talking in public about wikipedia.

Ruh roh! The digerati are taking notice of one of their enforcer's bad habits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Lack_of_volunteer_testers_.3F

I'm sorry, Okeyes (WMF), but I'm finding your responses to be lacking information and quite bitey. I think it's pretty clear that it didn't really matter how many experienced volunteers you had in the early going, because many crucial functions of the VE weren't operational until less than 24 hours before the software became the default. Now, if that was part of the plan, then the feedback to be taken in is that it wasn't a particularly good part. If it wasn't part of the plan, then the feedback is "this shouldn't happen". Just think if you'd had a week of testing with half the volunteer testers trying out the referencing and template interfaces, and how many bugs could have been addressed before you had a large number of editors deciding to turn it off almost entirely because of the bugs. Just imagine if this had not gone live at the same time as ULS, which also had significant bugs that wound up rebounding on VE because everyone noticed VE and not ULS. These are things that can be learned and noted for future roll-outs.
A member of the WMF team recently posted a blog[32] that focused on the opportunity to learn from "non-successes" and plans that did not go well. We need to acknowledge where things can be improved, or we are doomed to continue having the same negative responses over and over. I would have thought that there would have been more learning from the rollout of Echo/Notifications that should have been applied here, for example. People, and projects, are not expected to be perfect - but there is a reasonable expectation that we won't keep seeing the same problems time and again. Risker (talk) 02:55, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

It can't be long now.

Allie, you're making me feel old and dumb...

*sigh*

From the badmachine ED article. It's hard to overestimate how bad this looks for Oliver Keyes
https://encyclopediadramatica.se/Badmachine#lol

[20:22] <+Ironholds> badmachine, I'm not in any kind of relationship with the declining sysop. Shut your pie-hole.
[20:22] <badmachine> lol
[20:22] <+Ironholds> indeed, for the longest of times she wanted to break my neck
[20:23] <badmachine> what a thing for the community liaison to say
[20:23] <+Ironholds> I'm here in a personal role

This has been going on for a long, long time.
Oliver Keyes behaves like a douchebag to someone on IRC and then claims he's there in a personal role.

Hello wikidigerati,
Are you seeing the pattern yet?

Randy from Boise wrote:Is he a libertine with the block button? Not that I'm aware.

Well, there was that one time.

Randy from Boise wrote:

thekohser wrote:

Randy from Boise wrote:I'm pretty sure that Ironholds was the admin that gave me (out of the blue) auto-reviewed status, which felt like a huge honor and has proven to be a real stress-lessener and a boon to my work at WP. So I'm not gonna be the one to talk shit about him.

RfB

Thank you for demonstrating so clearly your lack of a spine.

You do what you want; until Keyes does something to me or my friends, I'm not going there. He was nice to me once.

RfB

So if Hitler gave you a puppy and you had no Jewish friends, you would not speak ill of him?

The Joy wrote:

Randy from Boise wrote:

thekohser wrote:

Randy from Boise wrote:I'm pretty sure that Ironholds was the admin that gave me (out of the blue) auto-reviewed status, which felt like a huge honor and has proven to be a real stress-lessener and a boon to my work at WP. So I'm not gonna be the one to talk shit about him.

RfB

Thank you for demonstrating so clearly your lack of a spine.

You do what you want; until Keyes does something to me or my friends, I'm not going there. He was nice to me once.

RfB

So if Hitler gave you a puppy and you had no Jewish friends, you would not speak ill of him?

"First they came for my puppy, so I shot Hitler."

Zoloft wrote:

The Joy wrote:

Randy from Boise wrote:

thekohser wrote:

Randy from Boise wrote:I'm pretty sure that Ironholds was the admin that gave me (out of the blue) auto-reviewed status, which felt like a huge honor and has proven to be a real stress-lessener and a boon to my work at WP. So I'm not gonna be the one to talk shit about him.

RfB

Thank you for demonstrating so clearly your lack of a spine.

You do what you want; until Keyes does something to me or my friends, I'm not going there. He was nice to me once.

RfB

So if Hitler gave you a puppy and you had no Jewish friends, you would not speak ill of him?

"First they came for my puppy, so I shot Hitler."

Now this is weird.
I was going to make the "first they came" joke, but I figured that was beyond the bounds of good taste.
It must be opposite day.

Vigilant wrote:

Zoloft wrote:

The Joy wrote:

Randy from Boise wrote:

thekohser wrote:

Randy from Boise wrote:I'm pretty sure that Ironholds was the admin that gave me (out of the blue) auto-reviewed status, which felt like a huge honor and has proven to be a real stress-lessener and a boon to my work at WP. So I'm not gonna be the one to talk shit about him.

RfB

Thank you for demonstrating so clearly your lack of a spine.

You do what you want; until Keyes does something to me or my friends, I'm not going there. He was nice to me once.

RfB

So if Hitler gave you a puppy and you had no Jewish friends, you would not speak ill of him?

"First they came for my puppy, so I shot Hitler."

Now this is weird.
I was going to make the "first they came" joke, but I figured that was beyond the bounds of good taste.
It must be opposite day.

For a zalid explanation, see: link

Zoloft wrote:

Vigilant wrote:

Zoloft wrote:

The Joy wrote:

Randy from Boise wrote:

thekohser wrote:

Randy from Boise wrote:I'm pretty sure that Ironholds was the admin that gave me (out of the blue) auto-reviewed status, which felt like a huge honor and has proven to be a real stress-lessener and a boon to my work at WP. So I'm not gonna be the one to talk shit about him.

RfB

Thank you for demonstrating so clearly your lack of a spine.

You do what you want; until Keyes does something to me or my friends, I'm not going there. He was nice to me once.

RfB

So if Hitler gave you a puppy and you had no Jewish friends, you would not speak ill of him?

"First they came for my puppy, so I shot Hitler."

Now this is weird.
I was going to make the "first they came" joke, but I figured that was beyond the bounds of good taste.
It must be opposite day.

For a valid explanation, see: link

Apostrophe revenge!

SilverSeren sure does get his fuzzy undies into a wad.

Vigilant wrote:

Zoloft wrote: Now this is weird.
I was going to make the "first they came" joke, but I figured that was beyond the bounds of good taste.
It must be opposite day.

True story:
Actually, it's even weirder than that...

I was going to do that, too, but my version was unfunny and bad taste, and involved Socialists

So I didn't...

True story - I promise

Randy from Boise wrote:Does he start lynch mobs? Throw gasoline on the fire? Not that I'm aware.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =305682505

Randy from Boise wrote:

The Adversary wrote: So therefor he gets a free card to do anything ...to anyone?
Seriously, I would not like to have friends who treated me this way!

Show us what he's done.

Does he start lynch mobs? Throw gasoline on the fire? Not that I'm aware.RfB

At ANI, he threatened to "thwapp" any administrator reverting my block for discussing the recruitment of child soldiers (which was mistaken for raising a concern about predatory grooming) and misquoted me as alleging "young boys" (rather than "young men") as the targets.

He has been quoted here (from IRC) bragging about his trolling of me (and others).

I met him a few years ago in London. He struck me as a sad character, quite bitter that he had trained as a lawyer, but had only been able to find probate work, which he was contemptuous of, and which he implied was beneath his talent and his dignity.

Peter Damian wrote:I met him a few years ago in London. He struck me as a sad character, quite bitter that he had trained as a lawyer, but had only been able to find probate work, which he was contemptuous of, and which he implied was beneath his talent and his dignity.

Is he an idiot? Until people *stop* dying, who can complain about a never-ending source of work?

But since we are on the subject, UK rules on workplace relations are quite clear that volunteers are subject to the same rights as employees when it comes to things like this. Someone should just ask Mr Beaudette where a formal grievance against a WMF employee can be raised.

Anroth wrote:

Peter Damian wrote:I met him a few years ago in London. He struck me as a sad character, quite bitter that he had trained as a lawyer, but had only been able to find probate work, which he was contemptuous of, and which he implied was beneath his talent and his dignity.

Is he an idiot? Until people *stop* dying, who can complain about a never-ending source of work?

Lol. Probate work is not well paid, and does not enjoy a particularly high status in the profession.

Peter Damian wrote:

Anroth wrote:

Peter Damian wrote:I met him a few years ago in London. He struck me as a sad character, quite bitter that he had trained as a lawyer, but had only been able to find probate work, which he was contemptuous of, and which he implied was beneath his talent and his dignity.

Is he an idiot? Until people *stop* dying, who can complain about a never-ending source of work?

Lol. Probate work is not well paid, and does not enjoy a particularly high status in the profession.

On the other hand he can work at McDonalds. (Where his recent comments would have had him fired.) If his choice of employment is law, at least probate would be using his (no doubt expensive) qualification. I suppose it is a pointless discussion now anyway, since he is on the WMF gravy train.

Here's another Ironholds IRC chat log:

[13:02] <Ironholds> If you gave me a choice between doing probate work for a living and being rammed hard from behind by Joseph Reagle
[13:02] <wctaiwan> Fluffernutter: also, visiting foreign prof?
[13:02] <Ironholds> My next question would be "will there be lube?"
01[13:02] <Ottava> Herodotus, I responded to you
[13:02] <Herodotus> I didn't address you.
01[13:02] <Ottava> So?
[13:02] <quanticle> Ironholds: And if the answer is no?
01[13:03] <Ottava> I addressed you
01[13:03] <Ottava> hence the ping
01[13:03] <Ottava> o.O
[13:03] <Herodotus> Okay.
[13:03] <Ironholds> quanticle: then I would choose Reaglesodomy
[13:03] <quanticle> So, if you'll choose Reaglesodomy either way, then why are you asking the question?
[13:04] <Ironholds> lube is always nice

I suspect that the legal profession is the sort that might strike people off for things said away from work. Social work is certainly very po-faced and I feel more free to say things now that I ain't going back.

thekohser wrote:Here's another Ironholds IRC chat log:

[13:02] <Ironholds> If you gave me a choice between doing probate work for a living and being rammed hard from behind by Joseph Reagle
[13:02] <wctaiwan> Fluffernutter: also, visiting foreign prof?
[13:02] <Ironholds> My next question would be "will there be lube?"
01[13:02] <Ottava> Herodotus, I responded to you
[13:02] <Herodotus> I didn't address you.
01[13:02] <Ottava> So?
[13:02] <quanticle> Ironholds: And if the answer is no?
01[13:03] <Ottava> I addressed you
01[13:03] <Ottava> hence the ping
01[13:03] <Ottava> o.O
[13:03] <Herodotus> Okay.
[13:03] <Ironholds> quanticle: then I would choose Reaglesodomy
[13:03] <quanticle> So, if you'll choose Reaglesodomy either way, then why are you asking the question?
[13:04] <Ironholds> lube is always nice

<Ironholds> fuck NEWT and its participants with 30-feet double-ended dildos coated in acid and razor wire
<Ironholds> in the ARSE
<Ironholds> for all eternity
<Ironholds> while their mouths are filled with 3000 degree celcius demon jizz
<Ironholds> not that I'm bitter, or anything

Peter Damian wrote:I met him a few years ago in London. He struck me as a sad character, quite bitter that he had trained as a lawyer, but had only been able to find probate work, which he was contemptuous of, and which he implied was beneath his talent and his dignity.

That doesn't surprise me.

Everything I see about him says "I am an immeasurably huge talent, stuck in a situation far beneath my worth".

The disconnect appears to be between where he places his worth and where the rest of the world places it.

I hope he will be freed from his current burdens at the WMF if he continues to approach them with such arrogance and lack of self awareness.

In his current PR role, his approach to disgruntled "customers" is basically to tell them to stop causing trouble and be grateful instead for the great things done by him and his colleagues on their behalf. That will always go down well...

I guess legal training has not prepared him in any way for Customer Service - go figure...

Just found this http://blog.ironholds.org

Here http://blog.ironholds.org/?p=296 the young man explains how to hire people.

Pretty much every application came with an associated C.V.

Thanks for that. Endlessly fascinating.

Peter Damian wrote:I met him a few years ago in London. He struck me as a sad character, quite bitter that he had trained as a lawyer, but had only been able to find probate work, which he was contemptuous of, and which he implied was beneath his talent and his dignity.

Perfect.

Customers are the problem
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =563053776

Kumioko, have you considered the possibility that statements like "stop forcing shit...down our throats" is the sort of thing that contributes to the culture you're complaining about? [[User:Okeyes (WMF)|Okeyes (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Okeyes (WMF)|talk]]) 02:40, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Fuckers...

I would like to know who hired this leaky prick as a PR person.

Randy from Boise wrote: He works for The Company, spouts the company line, and is catty on IRC. Which is, what, a minor misdemeanor?

I have to agree with this, particularly on the assessment of "catty". A threat that was not. I don't know why you've seized on this with such vigor, Vigilant; were you equally as outraged when Eric made the infamous "box cutter" comment? Or did that not matter because he doesn't work for an organization you dislike?

Not trying to start a fight with you, I just think you're overreacting a bit.

Vigilant wrote:Customers are the problem
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =563053776

Kumioko, have you considered the possibility that statements like "stop forcing shit...down our throats" is the sort of thing that contributes to the culture you're complaining about? [[User:Okeyes (WMF)|Okeyes (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Okeyes (WMF)|talk]]) 02:40, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Silly Kumioko! Don't you know that you should have simply said you wanted some oil so you could burn the development team?

The Joy wrote:

Randy from Boise wrote:

thekohser wrote:

Randy from Boise wrote:I'm pretty sure that Ironholds was the admin that gave me (out of the blue) auto-reviewed status, which felt like a huge honor and has proven to be a real stress-lessener and a boon to my work at WP. So I'm not gonna be the one to talk shit about him.

RfB

Thank you for demonstrating so clearly your lack of a spine.

You do what you want; until Keyes does something to me or my friends, I'm not going there. He was nice to me once.

RfB

So if Hitler gave you a puppy and you had no Jewish friends, you would not speak ill of him?

So Oliver Keyes is Hitler?!?!

Godwin Prize Nominee for 2013.

RfB

Hex wrote:

Randy from Boise wrote: He works for The Company, spouts the company line, and is catty on IRC. Which is, what, a minor misdemeanor?

I have to agree with this, particularly on the assessment of "catty". A threat that was not. I don't know why you've seized on this with such vigor, Vigilant; were you equally as outraged when Eric made the infamous "box cutter" comment? Or did that not matter because he doesn't work for an organization you dislike?

Not trying to start a fight with you, I just think you're overreacting a bit.

We're not going to fight.

Oliver Keyes has a long history of being a douchebag online, especially on IRC.
He is an admin and an employee of the WMF.
As an employee of the WMF, he has a fiduciary duty to act in the WMF's best interests.

His "joke" would have gotten any bog standard editor indeffed.
In the real employment world, his "joke" would have gotten any customer facing employee fired and perp walked out the door.
In a face to face meeting, his "joke" would have gotten him a trip to the hospital.
It is only within the confines of the insane asylum where the wikirules dictate that IRC log posting is a vastly worse offense than the transgression proved by said logs.

There is some sort of false equivalency going on here.
Oliver Keyes is a customer relations employee of the WMF who "joked" about burning a customer to death.
We are not employees of any organization, though I do, occasionally, consider rendering a bill for services in this forum.


As an aside, I don't recall the origins of the boxcutter kerfluffle.
Could you refresh my aging brain, please?

Randy from Boise wrote: So Oliver Keyes is Hitler?!?!
Godwin Prize Nominee for 2013.

Dude,
He ticked a box that changed a single bit of information in your pretend world social networking gameplay.

He did not:
* send your kids to college
* cure your wife of a fatal disease
* pay off your mortgage
* save your dog from a flooded river

You've gone all Brokeback Mountain here.

Vigilant wrote:

Randy from Boise wrote: So Oliver Keyes is Hitler?!?!
Godwin Prize Nominee for 2013.

Dude,
He ticked a box that changed a single bit of information in your pretend world social networking gameplay.

He did not:
* send your kids to college
* cure your wife of a fatal disease
* pay off your mortgage
* save your dog from a flooded river

You've gone all Brokeback Mountain here.

He is, on the other hand, a complete arsehole.