Down with Ironholds?

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:25 pm

Anroth wrote:
Peter Damian wrote:I met him a few years ago in London. He struck me as a sad character, quite bitter that he had trained as a lawyer, but had only been able to find probate work, which he was contemptuous of, and which he implied was beneath his talent and his dignity.
Is he an idiot? Until people *stop* dying, who can complain about a never-ending source of work?

But since we are on the subject, UK rules on workplace relations are quite clear that volunteers are subject to the same rights as employees when it comes to things like this. Someone should just ask Mr Beaudette where a formal grievance against a WMF employee can be raised.

This is where it's going.
Barring that, I'm sure that a California state agency can be found where one can file a formal but anonymous complaint.

Government workers are nothing if not methodical.

Hex · Unread post by **Hex** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:34 pm

Vigilant wrote: Oliver Keyes has a long history of being a douchebag online, especially on IRC.
He is an admin and an employee of the WMF.
As an employee of the WMF, he has a fiduciary duty to act in the WMF's best interests.

Oh, I'm with you there; I just don't think it makes sense to discuss his comments as being a "threat". As nasty words, sure. And certainly not ones you would want or expect to come from a Foundation employee. The arguments that the IRC channel are "private" or "not affiliated to the project" are class-A hogwash.

Vigilant wrote: As an aside, I don't recall the origins of the boxcutter kerfluffle.
Could you refresh my aging brain, please?

It was just another example of someone (in this case, Eric) making a comment (quoted in the comments here - I see no need to repeat it) and getting a completely disproportionate response to what was obviously just a turn of phrase, even if it was a nasty one.

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:35 pm

Peter Damian wrote:Just found this http://blog.ironholds.org

Here http://blog.ironholds.org/?p=296 the young man explains how to hire people.

Pretty much every application came with an associated C.V.
Thanks for that. Endlessly fascinating.

Holy. Fucking. Christ.

This piece of human garbage is an open ended liability machine.

Yuvi
June 25, 2013
I was hired over, I think, 4 emails and a visit to a beach for local food. That was fun Took a week, and I didn’t even have to deal with Oliver!

Doing this type of stuff with no experience in hiring is arrogant and foolish.
On the other hand, it can't possibly be worse than the current hiring process given the principals involved and results acquired with that particular debacle.

You are so very, very stupid Oliver.

Anthony (AGK)
July 1, 2013
What was the incredibly twisty question? I’m dying to know .

Reply
Ironholds
July 3, 2013
First-stage screener asked them to identify the best and most-sucky things the Foundation had done.
Second-stage screener asked them to slate the best thing, and sell the sucky thing

Good luck, WMF, you're going to need it.

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:42 pm

Hex wrote:
Vigilant wrote: Oliver Keyes has a long history of being a douchebag online, especially on IRC.
He is an admin and an employee of the WMF.
As an employee of the WMF, he has a fiduciary duty to act in the WMF's best interests.
Oh, I'm with you there; I just don't think it makes sense to discuss his comments as being a "threat". As nasty words, sure. And certainly not ones you would want or expect to come from a Foundation employee. The arguments that the IRC channel are "private" or "not affiliated to the project" are class-A hogwash.

Imagine you're a parent and your child has that comment directed at them.
There's no wiggle room at that point.

The inner voice in my head growls, "I'm going to fucking skin you and use you as a wetsuit."

Nasty words are "what a little shit", etc.
Whereas, "I'd like to burn this person alive, ha ha!" falls nowhere near that mark.

Vigilant wrote: As an aside, I don't recall the origins of the boxcutter kerfluffle.
Could you refresh my aging brain, please?

It was just another example of someone (in this case, Eric) making a comment (quoted in the comments here - I see no need to repeat it) and getting a completely disproportionate response to what was obviously just a turn of phrase, even if it was a nasty one.

A pause while I attempt to tease my loathing for Oliver Keyes out of the equation.
*working*

Edit: fixing broken quote tag and grammar

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:46 pm

This is especially delicious

This frustrates me greatly. Some things are genuinely organisational problems – our tendency to use “organisational problems” as an excuse, for example – but a lot of things aren’t. And when we say “X not happening is largely an organisational problem”, we do several things.

First, we dismiss the severity of X. We dismiss people bringing us problems like X. If someone reports a problem with X, and you proclaim it to be an organisational issue, you imply that it is not an issue you, as respondent, can solve for or deal with. You imply that it is not a problem you should be bothered with, and not something that any specific person should be bothered with. You create a situation in which people are less likely to report problems, because when they do, they’re informed that it’s not something the person they’ve reported it to can deal with, and the paper trail and line of dialogue goes no further.

I was not speaking in my role as a WMF employee!

Even more funny, but for other reasons

Having just hired four people, I can confirm that The Guerilla Guide to Interviewing and Sorting Resumes are highly useful. More to come on this subject later.

I dun jes read "Hirin' fer dummiez"
What kind of sick, demented monster would put Oliver Keyes in charge of hiring additional gremlins?

His blog has a section entitled "Wackjobs"
http://blog.ironholds.org/?cat=24
He misspells WhackJobs and is not omnipresent in said category.

D- would not trust again.

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:50 pm

Good god, a self medicator.

Decaffeinated
On June 17, 2013 by Ironholds With 3 Comments - Life
I’ve now spent almost a week totally caffeine free. There aren’t any particular triggers or instigators; I simply woke up not wanting to drink coca-cola last Tuesday and…well, stuck at it. So far it’s going fine, which is pretty impressive given that I was up to 8 cans of the stuff a day beforehand. Noticeable changes:

Headaches. Oh, the headaches. It turns out that people (well, K) advise never to quit caffeine cold turkey, because it can produce noticeably unpleasant side-effects like “crippling skull pain”. The solution to this is very small amounts of caffeine (i.e. chocolate).
I smoke less. This is weird until you grok my smoking routine, which is: go downstairs, out the back door through the kitchen, smoke, in again. Cold, caffeinated drinks meant that I’d go into the kitchen to get them, which meant setting me in a “I smoke out there. Nicotine relief would be nice, huh…” mental pattern every time I got a drink. Strangely I don’t have any mental associations with “going to the sink in the bathroom with a glass” around nicotine, although I have gone through five tubes of toothpaste.1
My sleep schedule is less screwy. Over time my body has built a pretty consistent tolerance to caffeine, which meant I wasn’t really getting any productivity boost out of it: what I was getting was an inability to consistently sleep. Since switching I’ve happily maintained a 10am-midnight schedule, which for someone working just off PDT is pretty friggin’ good.
All in all, a good change!

So, in advance of a major release of software, that you know deep in your dark grey soul to be bug ridden beyond use, you decide to cold turkey your central nervous system stimulant use?

Well done, sped.

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:00 pm

And yet even more delicious.

Lad culture
On April 24, 2013 by Ironholds With 0 Comments - Life, Thunkins
Tom Morris has an excellent post on ‘lad’ culture at De Montford, where he first went to university. I’m not going to bother chipping in with a “me, too!” because his experiences mirror mine – I ended up very socially isolated primarily due to my failure to consider “hey, strange person I’ve never met before! Lets get SHIT DRUNK!” a valid proposition on my first day at university – although I would say that a lot of female university students seem to buy into lad culture, or their version thereof, too.

One bit that particularly resonated in his post, however, was:

Given student unions tend to build activities around the outgoing, hyper-social “lads”, it wouldn’t be too silly for people like me to wonder whether in fact student unions are representing all students or just those that fit within some strange, socially determined idea of what a student is that mostly involves binge drinking and not much of that studying thing people supposedly go to university for.
A “+1″ to that. I was, for one year, a trustee of the SU at my university, something that was eye-opening in a lot of ways, none of them positive.1 The circumstances were as follows: I, a young, politically-motivated gentleman who wanted to improve things, found himself in a small circle of friends who also wanted to improve things. We were elected to the non-sabbatical positions.2 We caused rather a ruckus and got nothing productive done. In causing said ruckus, several things became clear to me – all of which seemed to stem from a vicious cycle in relation to the engagement with and of the Union.

The Union’s Trustees, particularly the Sabbatical officers, were mostly from the sports-related clubs and sports-related culture, with a heavy tinge of lad. Because of this, activities were primarily organised from this point of view – the price of drinks in the bar became a crushing issue, while resourcing given to clubs and societies took a back seat.
The electorate became disengaged with the union, which, as said, had a perspective focused more on maximum alcohol prices and clubbing contracts than electoral process. As a result, the union focused on these things. As a result, those people who didn’t particularly care about them stopped caring about the union. As a result, the effective electorate became, you guessed it, laddish groups and sports societies.
Support from the University decreases, directly related to the narrow vision and incompetence of the officers they’re in contact with.
The next generation of candidates looks to apply for Trustee positions. There aren’t many of them, and there aren’t many votes to elect them. Those candidates who find themselves elected tend to be those who can appeal to/have contacts with the effective electorate – members of sports societies, groups of lads.
The Union’s trustees, particularly the Sabbatical officers….you can see how this goes.
Presumably there’s some way to pause the cycle of stupid, but it would require a lot of effort and a big incentive – both of which are few and far between in what was, frankly, not that good a university. Even if people cared enough, there’s only so much shit you’re willing to take for free. When I left, as noted in the footnotes, they’d just managed to invalidate their existence in an attempt to comply with the Charities Act. Something tells me they won’t be getting better any time soon.

Completely un-self-aware.
No inkling of a metaphor for wikipedia, yet writ large and abandoned to the weeds.

It is too much buttery teared goodness for one world.

neved · Unread post by **neved** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:38 pm

ED (NSFW!) https://encyclopediadramatica.se/Ironholds provides this exchange

19:57:22 < tyw7> Ironholds: I think Fluffernutter_ is currently afk
19:57:27 < tyw7> see Fluff|laptop instead
19:57:49 < Ironholds> tyw7: she's sitting next to me and I just slapped her arse
19:57:51 < Fluff|laptop> yeah, he's talking to the wrong me
19:57:51 < Ironholds> trust me, I know
19:57:57 < Fluff|laptop> no he didn't
19:58:00 < Fluff|laptop> he has terrible aim
19:58:03 < Fluff|laptop> he poked me in the hip
19:58:12 < Fluff|laptop> and now he just pinched my ass
19:58:19 < Peter-C> O_O
19:59:11 < Fluff|laptop> you'd think he'd have figured hiow to slap asses by now, but nooo
19:59:51 < tyw7> why is he slapping your ass?
20:00:00 < Ironholds> tyw7: we're fucking
20:00:02 < Fluff|laptop> why not? we DID say we're bored
20:00:06 < tyw7> O_o

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:48 pm

Vigilant wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote: So Oliver Keyes is Hitler?!?!
Godwin Prize Nominee for 2013.
Dude,
He ticked a box that changed a single bit of information in your pretend world social networking gameplay.

He did not:
* send your kids to college
* cure your wife of a fatal disease
* pay off your mortgage
* save your dog from a flooded river

You've gone all Brokeback Mountain here.

Nah, he's a functionary for an annoying big company who was minorly nice to me once and who attempted a fairly obvious joke that is being run through the infinite dramahz loop because he's a functionary for an annoying big company.

Far from getting any typical WP volunteer indeffed, the joke would have gone completely unnoticed had it been made by anyone not a functionary of the annoying big company.

Is he a jerk in real life? A nice guy? I don't know, I've got no opinion. He was nice to me once, that's the extent of my interaction with him. I certainly have seen nothing which justifies this shrill thread.

RfB

Malleus · Unread post by **Malleus** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:52 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:
Vigilant wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote: So Oliver Keyes is Hitler?!?!
Godwin Prize Nominee for 2013.
Dude,
He ticked a box that changed a single bit of information in your pretend world social networking gameplay.

He did not:
* send your kids to college
* cure your wife of a fatal disease
* pay off your mortgage
* save your dog from a flooded river

You've gone all Brokeback Mountain here.
Nah, he's a functionary for an annoying big company who was minorly nice to me once and who attempted a fairly obvious joke that is being run through the infinite dramahz loop because he's a functionary for an annoying big company.

Far from getting any typical WP volunteer indeffed, the joke would have gone completely unnoticed had it been made by anyone not a functionary of the annoying big company.

Is he a jerk in real life? A nice guy? I don't know, I've got no opinion. He was nice to me once, that's the extent of my interaction with him. I certainly have seen nothing which justifies this shrill thread.

RfB

He's an idiot and a sneaky dishonest arsehole. How much more do you need?

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:57 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:
Vigilant wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote: So Oliver Keyes is Hitler?!?!
Godwin Prize Nominee for 2013.
Dude,
He ticked a box that changed a single bit of information in your pretend world social networking gameplay.

He did not:
* send your kids to college
* cure your wife of a fatal disease
* pay off your mortgage
* save your dog from a flooded river

You've gone all Brokeback Mountain here.
Nah, he's a functionary for an annoying big company who was minorly nice to me once and who attempted a fairly obvious joke that is being run through the infinite dramahz loop because he's a functionary for an annoying big company.

Far from getting any typical WP volunteer indeffed, the joke would have gone completely unnoticed had it been made by anyone not a functionary of the annoying big company.

Is he a jerk in real life? A nice guy? I don't know, I've got no opinion. He was nice to me once, that's the extent of my interaction with him. I certainly have seen nothing which justifies this shrill thread.

RfB

So much wrong.

WMF is not a big company.
Microsoft is a big company.
Google is a big company.
WMF is a tiny, broken startup populated by the dregs of a third rate career fair with no real mission.

He's got a history as an internet asshole that makes him look like a young version of David Gerard.

Shrill. My favorite adjective. Nothing works better.
He is an employee of the WMF whose job it is to represent the WMF in the world, especially to its customers (editors).
He is grossly over the line on a regular basis.
He needs to be terminated with extreme prejudice...by the HR staff.

You're just all starry eyed that someone, anyone, was nice to you on wikipedia.

You can sort out who is who. Don't get drunk and let him shag you on the veranda.

Unread post by **HRIP7** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:01 pm

Hex wrote:The arguments that the IRC channel are "private" or "not affiliated to the project" are class-A hogwash.

Indeed; not least because of Wikipedia:IRC (T-H-L) and Jimbo's statement here (H/T to Giano).

Malleus · Unread post by **Malleus** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:05 pm

HRIP7 wrote:
Hex wrote:The arguments that the IRC channel are "private" or "not affiliated to the project" are class-A hogwash.
Indeed; not least because of Wikipedia:IRC (T-H-L) and Jimbo's statement here (H/T to Giano).

Jimbo can't tell his arse from his elbow. I seriously wonder if he isn't in the early stages of dementia, the number of things he promises to do but then forgets about.

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:06 pm

Malleus wrote: He's an idiot and a sneaky dishonest arsehole. How much more do you need?

Of which there are many in this world. So what's the point of this thread, that he is an idiot and a sneaky dishonest asshole? That he attempts bad jokes? That he should be fired from his job because he is an idiot and a sneaky dishonest asshole?

If IRC was gone in the morning, I'd be fine with that. I'm sure there are many on IRC who feel the same way about this site. So it goes. Nobody is gonna argue that Ironholds is not a catty little IRC maven. He clearly is, there are plenty of examples of that. So what?

RfB

Malleus · Unread post by **Malleus** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:07 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:
Malleus wrote: He's an idiot and a sneaky dishonest arsehole. How much more do you need?
Of which there are many in this world. So what's the point of this thread, that he is an idiot and a sneaky dishonest asshole? That he attempts bad jokes? That he should be fired from his job because he is an idiot and a sneaky dishonest asshole?

If IRC was gone in the morning, I'd be fine with that. I'm sure there are many on IRC who feel the same way about this site. So it goes. Nobody is gonna argue that Ironholds is not a catty little IRC maven. He clearly is, there's plenty of examples of that. So what?

RfB

The "so what" is that he should be dismissed.

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:09 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:
Malleus wrote: He's an idiot and a sneaky dishonest arsehole. How much more do you need?
Of which there are many in this world. So what's the point of this thread, that he is an idiot and a sneaky dishonest asshole? That he attempts bad jokes? That he should be fired from his job because he is an idiot and a sneaky dishonest asshole?

If IRC was gone in the morning, I'd be fine with that. I'm sure there are many on IRC who feel the same way about this site. So it goes. Nobody is gonna argue that Ironholds is not a catty little IRC maven. He clearly is, there are plenty of examples of that. So what?

RfB

Are you mental?

I will spell this out one last time for you.

He is an EMPLOYEE of the WMF in the field of PUBLIC RELATIONS.
Continuously being a giant douche to people is contraindicated for that position.

Edit: I just realized that you know all this and understand exactly why I'm right, but can't stand what that implies for your wiki-friend.

Perhaps a better response would be, I am sorry for your imminent loss.

The Joy · Unread post by **The Joy** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:16 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:
Malleus wrote: He's an idiot and a sneaky dishonest arsehole. How much more do you need?
Of which there are many in this world. So what's the point of this thread, that he is an idiot and a sneaky dishonest asshole? That he attempts bad jokes? That he should be fired from his job because he is an idiot and a sneaky dishonest asshole?

If IRC was gone in the morning, I'd be fine with that. I'm sure there are many on IRC who feel the same way about this site. So it goes. Nobody is gonna argue that Ironholds is not a catty little IRC maven. He clearly is, there are plenty of examples of that. So what?

RfB

One time, a March of Dimes (T-H-L) volunteer phoned my mother and asked for money. My mother said "no," and, as she was about to hang up, the volunteer called her a "lazy ass." Guess who's not getting anymore money? Guess which charity I tell people not to donate to? Guess what I would do if I ever met that volunteer in person? Guess!

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:19 pm

Vigilant wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:
Malleus wrote: He's an idiot and a sneaky dishonest arsehole. How much more do you need?
Of which there are many in this world. So what's the point of this thread, that he is an idiot and a sneaky dishonest asshole? That he attempts bad jokes? That he should be fired from his job because he is an idiot and a sneaky dishonest asshole?

If IRC was gone in the morning, I'd be fine with that. I'm sure there are many on IRC who feel the same way about this site. So it goes. Nobody is gonna argue that Ironholds is not a catty little IRC maven. He clearly is, there are plenty of examples of that. So what?

RfB
Are you mental?

I will spell this out one last time for you.

He is an EMPLOYEE of the WMF in the field of PUBLIC RELATIONS.
Continuously being a giant douche to people is contraindicated for that position.

That's a fair enough perspective.

The question being, of course, where does the job end and real life begin?

RfB

Malleus · Unread post by **Malleus** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:27 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:
Vigilant wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:
Malleus wrote: He's an idiot and a sneaky dishonest arsehole. How much more do you need?
Of which there are many in this world. So what's the point of this thread, that he is an idiot and a sneaky dishonest asshole? That he attempts bad jokes? That he should be fired from his job because he is an idiot and a sneaky dishonest asshole?

If IRC was gone in the morning, I'd be fine with that. I'm sure there are many on IRC who feel the same way about this site. So it goes. Nobody is gonna argue that Ironholds is not a catty little IRC maven. He clearly is, there are plenty of examples of that. So what?

RfB
Are you mental?

I will spell this out one last time for you.

He is an EMPLOYEE of the WMF in the field of PUBLIC RELATIONS.
Continuously being a giant douche to people is contraindicated for that position.
That's a fair enough perspective.

The question being, of course, where does the job end and real life begin?

RfB

A question you ought to ask of him, and obviously one he has no idea of how to answer. As he's an idiot.

Anroth · Unread post by **Anroth** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:28 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:
That's a fair enough perspective.

The question being, of course, where does the job end and real life begin?

RfB

Way off track with this one. There is no situation where hanging out in an IRC channel, devoted to the main project which your employer is responsible for, qualifies as non-work related. (Which is what I assume you mean by 'real life' as the normal internet usage of 'real life' means 'not on the internet'.)

Scott5114 · Unread post by **Scott5114** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:04 pm

Vigilant wrote: Anyone with an HR background looking into Oliver Keyes background would have completely and utterly disqualified him from being accepted into ANY customer facing position.

By his OWN ADMISSION, he's bipolar, autistic and has Aperger's.
What. The. Fuck?

What company on earth would hire anyone like that for a PR role?
In the real world, that would be grounds for terminating the hiring manager.

Anyone with an HR background would know that taking the fact that he's bipolar/autistic/Asperger's into consideration when deciding whether to employ him violates United States law, if not by discriminating against a protected class, then by violating HIPAA or ADA. The only thing that matters is if they feel he can do the job despite his disabilities, given reasonable accommodation.

Anroth · Unread post by **Anroth** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:12 pm

Scott5114 wrote: Anyone with an HR background would know that taking the fact that he's bipolar/autistic/Asperger's into consideration when deciding whether to employ him violates United States law, if not by discriminating against a protected class, then by violating HIPAA or ADA. The only thing that matters is if they feel he can do the job despite his disabilities, given reasonable accommodation.

You wouldn't hire someone with Tourette's to do customer-facing PR work

Even in the UK with our fairly harsh (and to the benefit of employees mostly) employment regulations you could get away with that.

thekohser · Unread post by **thekohser** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:15 pm

Scott5114 wrote:The only thing that matters is if they feel he can do the job despite his disabilities, given reasonable accommodation.

Is putting up with his offensive remarks part of the "reasonable accommodation"?

Unread post by **Smiley** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:10 pm

Anroth wrote:You wouldn't hire someone with Tourette's to do customer-facing PR work Even in the UK with our fairly harsh (and to the benefit of employees mostly) employment regulations you could get away with that.

Well, my old mate Pete Bennett (T-C-L) might be an exception to that rule..

The Guardian wrote:The success of Big Brother winner and Tourette's sufferer, Pete Bennett, has been hailed as 'the best PR job anyone could have done' for the condition.

In 2005, I went on three-day acid-fueled bender with this guy. Funniest. shit. ever.

Poetlister · Unread post by **Poetlister** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:16 pm

Malleus wrote:I seriously wonder if he isn't in the early stages of dementia, the number of things he promises to do but then forgets about.

It's what might, to coin a phrase, be called "diplomatic amnesia".

Malleus · Unread post by **Malleus** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:19 pm

Outsider wrote:
Malleus wrote:I seriously wonder if he isn't in the early stages of dementia, the number of things he promises to do but then forgets about.
It's what might, to coin a phrase, be called "diplomatic amnesia".

One could indeed call it that, or one could simply tell the truth.

EricBarbour · Unread post by **EricBarbour** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:30 pm

What, do I really have to post links to all SEVEN of his RFAs?

December 2007 as "O_keyes"
March 2008 as "O_keyes"
June 2008
October 2008
March 2009
January 2010 "With just about 46,000 edits (about 10,000 of which are deleted as a result of his NPP work)"
January 2011 finally succeeded.

Do I have to remind you about The undertow/Law outing?
http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?s= ... t&p=196838

Do I have to remind you about "Mentifisto"?
http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=27575

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:49 pm

Hilariously hypocritical that he kvetches about that IRC snippet at NYB's.

What a complete douchebag.

mac · Unread post by **mac** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:32 am

Peter Damian wrote:Just found this http://blog.ironholds.org

Here http://blog.ironholds.org/?p=296 the young man explains how to hire people.

Pretty much every application came with an associated C.V.
Thanks for that. Endlessly fascinating.

Clicking on the links brings up a "403 Forbidden" error. Copying then pasting the link brings up the site.

TungstenCarbide · Unread post by **TungstenCarbide** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:39 am

mac wrote:Clicking on the links brings up a "403 Forbidden" error. Copying then pasting the link brings up the site.

Hahahaha -- if the referring website is WO, you're blocked.

Hi Oliver!

(just highlight the link in the url bar and hit enter again)

Unread post by **Zoloft** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:41 am

TungstenCarbide wrote:
mac wrote:Clicking on the links brings up a "403 Forbidden" error. Copying then pasting the link brings up the site.
Hahahaha -- if the referring website is WO, you're blocked.

Hi Oliver!

(just highlight the link in the url bar and hit enter again)

That's an unfriendly, pathetic, and useless thing to do with a website.

TungstenCarbide · Unread post by **TungstenCarbide** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:48 am

Zoloft wrote:
TungstenCarbide wrote:
mac wrote:Clicking on the links brings up a "403 Forbidden" error. Copying then pasting the link brings up the site.
Hahahaha -- if the referring website is WO, you're blocked.

Hi Oliver!

(just highlight the link in the url bar and hit enter again)
That's an unfriendly, pathetic, and useless thing to do with a website.

How about this;

Unread post by **Zoloft** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:00 am

This is an excellent short article on that security vulnerability.

DanMurphy · Unread post by **DanMurphy** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:36 am

TungstenCarbide wrote:
mac wrote:Clicking on the links brings up a "403 Forbidden" error. Copying then pasting the link brings up the site.
Hahahaha -- if the referring website is WO, you're blocked.

Hi Oliver!

(just highlight the link in the url bar and hit enter again)

I clicked through to that website at about noon EST today without problems. He's an avid reader... which means the Wikipediocracy taint is upon him!

(And shouldn't he be grateful? I'm sure we pushed his traffic today up into the... dozens.)

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:52 pm

This made me laugh
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =563035212

An encouraging word

Hi Oliver. I just wanted to stop by and thank you for being the point person between the community and the foundation. In a few months, it will be two years that you've been helping the community interact with the foundation and its software group. That's an eternity on the net. I must say that you've certainly surpassed my expectations as a community liaison. The work you've been doing, gathering input from the community, has been invaluable and has helped make things much better than they otherwise would have been. You've been very visible and highly active, much more so that I thought was possible. I expect it's more than a full-time job, it's more like a 24-hr/day job. I'm very thankful the foundation chose an upstanding Wikipedian like you to fill this tremendously difficult role.
I know the rollout of the VE has been a difficult change for many people and very taxing on you and the rest of the WMF staff. I think you've been very helpful to users having problems and also been thoughtful and courteous even as the wagons are circling. I sincerely appreciate that.
I thought it might be a little helpful if I left you an encouraging word to help keep you going during these difficult times. You are doing outstanding work that we (foundation and community) so desperately need. We are making great progress together and we need to continue for the health of the project. Your efforts are important and very much appreciated. All the best. 64.40.54.109 (talk) 01:07, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

This person was so concerned for poor Oliver's mental state that they declined to log in and use their wikipedia account.
"Good job!" says an IP who obviously has an account. That really means something.
Watch that the Ironhold's taint doesn't splash on you.

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:51 pm

This whole Ironholds Joke/K-Wolf Threat/Wheelwarring/Incivility/IRC brouhaha is sliding towards an ArbCom case.

Some possible outcomes:

1. Ironholds loses WMF job.

2. K-Wolf gets a protracted block or ban for serial incivility and physical threats on wiki (3 months to indef).

3. Fram gets detooled for wheel warring.

Ah, the dramahz industry has a new season in the wings...

The BEST result would be WMF shutting down IRC altogether and driving a wooden stake into the heart of The Cabal, but I don't see that in the cards. If I'm a betting man, outcomes 1 and 2 above seem fairly likely, 3 is less so.

RfB

Anroth · Unread post by **Anroth** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:25 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:This whole Ironholds Joke/K-Wolf Threat/Wheelwarring/Incivility/IRC brouhaha is sliding towards an ArbCom case.

Some possible outcomes:

1. Ironholds loses WMF job.

2. K-Wolf gets a protracted block or ban for serial incivility and physical threats on wiki (3 months to indef).

3. Fram gets detooled for wheel warring.

Ah, the dramahz industry has a new season in the wings...

The BEST result would be WMF shutting down IRC altogether and driving a wooden stake into the heart of The Cabal, but I don't see that in the cards. If I'm a betting man, outcomes 1 and 2 above seem fairly likely, 3 is less so.

RfB

1. Out of Arbcom's remit. They can de-sysop him for conduct unbecoming, as IRC is clearly within their jurisdiction, which would probably lead the WMF to re-evaluate his contract. As I recall he is a contractor, not a full-time employee, so the WMF probably has an easy way out to drop his contract anyway.

2. Unlikely, given the provocation.

3. Technically not wheel-warring. Unblocking someone blocked by another admin is not wheel-warring. Its wheel-warring at the point someone then re-blocks.

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:49 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:This whole Ironholds Joke/K-Wolf Threat/Wheelwarring/Incivility/IRC brouhaha is sliding towards an ArbCom case.

Some possible outcomes:

1. Ironholds loses WMF job.

I think this is a foregone conclusion.
He's belligerent to a fault, regardless of venue or subject material.
He is uniquely unsuited for the job.

The thing I really, really love about this situation is that the hiring of this manchild exposes the obviously oblivious manner in
which the vestigial Human Resources department goes about its business.

The WMF are, once again, on the horns of a dilemna of their own making.
1) Either the terminate this spedling with extreme prejudice, thus lending weight to this discussion and the wikipediocracy sponsored motion. Inconceivable!
2) Or they refuse to do anything substantive about Oliver Keyes and he continues to provide incontrovertible evidence to the double standards that exist between the admin and editor classes.

Here's what's very funny to me.
Oliver Keyes made a "joke" in a channel with up to 1600 advanced permissioned participants about burning an editor to death. This is far from his first fuckup, e.g. "let them drink demon jizz", "I despise Jimmy Wales", etc, etc
The defense ranged from "it was private" to "no logging" to "not in his official capacity". All feeble excuses for intolerable behavior.
Kiefer's response was completely predictable when being provoked with a death threat.

The outcome is that the editor, Kiefer, is seriously being considered for an indef block.
The admin and WMF employee *might* face a deadminning.

Indef block and effective banning is not the same as loss of admin privileges.

The only inference possible is that admins are a higher class of people than editors and are thus immune to sanctions such as indefinite blocks or banning. It is only after they are stripped of their permissions that they are eligible for these punishments.

Hex · Unread post by **Hex** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:41 pm

Vigilant wrote: Kiefer's response was completely predictable when being provoked with a death threat.

Dude, will you fucking give it up with the "death threat" bullshit already?

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:52 pm

Hex wrote:
Vigilant wrote: Kiefer's response was completely predictable when being provoked with a death threat.
Dude, will you fucking give it up with the "death threat" bullshit already?

It's not and I won't.
"Only if I get to bring a lighter" is a directly stated wish to light someone on fire.

How about you get Oliver Keyes to publicly acknowledge his mistake, commit to never do it again and apologize profusely to Kiefer?

I believe that's the standard wikipedia requirement for the indef blocked to be allowed into wikipedia...

Or better yet, have him say it to me when he's in San Francisco next.
I'd be happy to provide him with a concrete lesson about having your mouth write checks that your body can't cash.

Volunteer Marek · Unread post by **Volunteer Marek** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:08 pm

If you're gonna go looking for delicious then this is Delicious:

I am surprised at the lack of good faith being shown here. As I understand it, this whole debacle has been sparked by Ironholds reply to the comment "Well, you grab the oil, I'll meet you there" with "only if I'm allowed to bring a lighter". Some editors have inflamed the situation by taking this to mean that he wants to burn another editor alive! I suggest that other interpretations are possible (if not more likely).
"Only if I'm allowed to bring a lighter... because I borrowed a copy of Frampton Comes Alive from my uncle and we can wave them around while listening to it."
"Only if I'm allowed to bring a lighter... because I think it would be a nicer experience if we smoked a joint while you gave Kiefer a sensuous, oily massage."
"Only if I'm allowed to bring a lighter... because it might be dark there and we don't want anyone to trip and hurt themselves."
"Only if I'm allowed to bring a lighter... because Kiefer might want some moxibustion."
Has anyone asked Ironholds to confirm that he meant to suggest burning another editor alive? Delicious carbuncle (talk) 18:21, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =563267533

I was trying to think of something snarky to say at that request but now I don't think I can top that.

DanMurphy · Unread post by **DanMurphy** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:20 pm

This...

"Only if I'm allowed to bring a lighter... because I borrowed a copy of Frampton Comes Alive from my uncle and we can wave them around while listening to it."

.. is very funny.

For the young 'uns.

Unread post by **Midsize Jake** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:31 pm

Let's be realistic about this. There's room for compromise interpretations, and I think it's pretty clear that Mr. Keyes' statement was intended to mean that while Mr. Wolfowitz should be burned, and presumably burned while alive, he did not necessarily mean that he should be burned to death. He probably hoped that a few first- and second-degree burns, mostly in the torso area, would "knock some sense" into Mr. Wolfowitz and convince him to forgo participation in various interactive websites critical of Wikipedia, as well as himself.

This is in keeping with a long, colorful history of "off-the-cuff" remarks made by certain members of the Wikipedia community, dating back to as early as 2004, suggesting that various Wikipedia critics should be shot, strangled, stabbed, blown up with high explosives, thrown off of thousand-foot cliffs, or forced to watch re-runs of Dawson's Creek or Touched by an Angel until they commit suicide.

It's just part of the regular give-and-take between narcissists and the people who criticize them. Standard stuff, really - probably not worth this much fuss, but still fairly entertaining at least.

Kiefer.Wolfowitz · Unread post by **Kiefer.Wolfowitz** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:32 pm

Vigilant wrote:
Hex wrote:
Vigilant wrote:Kiefer's response was completely predictable when being provoked with a death threat.
Dude, will you fucking give it up with the "death threat" bullshit already?
It's not and I won't.
"Only if I get to bring a lighter" is a directly stated wish to light someone on fire.

How about you get Oliver Keyes to publicly acknowledge his mistake, commit to never do it again and apologize profusely to Kiefer?

I believe that's the standard wikipedia requirement for the indef blocked to be allowed into wikipedia...

The amazing editor Hyacinth (T-C-L) is being hounded by Kww (T-C-L) et alia at ANI, who want to subject him to the Spanish Inquisition, so that Kww can sleep without worrying about Hyacinth making a mistake on an infobox. Otherwise Kww's lunatic indef-block may be reimposed.

Hyacinth had repeatedly asked to be allowed to sleep, and Status (T-C-L) increased his demands for immediate answers.

Hyacinth has epilepsy. He should be allowed to return to peaceful editing with having his heels bitten by a pack of deranged miniature poodles.

Doc Holliday: Dave Rutabaugh is an ignorant scoundrel! I disapprove of his very existence... I considered ending it myself on several occasions but self-control got the better of me.

About Oliver Keyes / Ironholds (T-C-L) / Okeyes (WMF) (T-C-L):
I take his "lighting me with oil" threat as seriously as I do his and Demiwit's other remarks about me on IRC. On the other hand, why go to bed being annoyed, particularly when suffering a fever from a summer cold?

Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles to frown. But it only takes four muscles to extend your arm and bitch-slap the motherfucker upside the head.

Problem is, Keyes and Demiwit enjoy being bitchslapped, so it's better to ignore them....

Hex · Unread post by **Hex** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:41 pm

Vigilant wrote:
Hex wrote: Dude, will you fucking give it up with the "death threat" bullshit already?
It's not and I won't.
"Only if I get to bring a lighter" is a directly stated wish to light someone on fire.

Utter crap. Are you genuinely this bad at understanding context?

The Joy · Unread post by **The Joy** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:42 pm

If Ironholds is sanctioned for his IRC comments, could this bring back WP:BADSITES? Wikipedians could throw Ironholds under the bus just to get revenge on this site.

Unread post by **Zoloft** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:44 pm

The Joy wrote:If Ironholds is sanctioned for his IRC comments, could this bring back WP:BADSITES? Wikipedians could throw Ironholds under the bus just to get revenge on this site.

Wouldn't that make IRC the 'BADSITE?'

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:54 pm

Hex wrote:
Vigilant wrote:
Hex wrote: Dude, will you fucking give it up with the "death threat" bullshit already?
It's not and I won't.
"Only if I get to bring a lighter" is a directly stated wish to light someone on fire.
Utter crap. Are you genuinely this bad at understanding context?

Must I school you, yet again?

Recommence my grooming.

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:55 pm

This left a bad mental image for me.

"Only if I'm allowed to bring a lighter... because I think it would be a nicer experience if we smoked a joint while you gave Kiefer a sensuous, oily massage."

I'm pretty sure Kiefer will need counselling, as well.

The Joy · Unread post by **The Joy** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:58 pm

Zoloft wrote:
The Joy wrote:If Ironholds is sanctioned for his IRC comments, could this bring back WP:BADSITES? Wikipedians could throw Ironholds under the bus just to get revenge on this site.
Wouldn't that make IRC the 'BADSITE?'

I sure hope so! Giano (T-C-L) would be very pleased, indeed!

Sadly, that means that Examiner.com (T-H-L) will be blacklisted as well.