Edgar181 sock farm

[10920]

Feels like this needs its own thread.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... desysopped



User registration and edit count

Code: Select all

+----------------+----------------------+----------------+
| user_name      |    user_registration | user_editcount |
+----------------+----------------------+----------------+
| Edgar181       | 2005 10 14 160417    |         196322 |
| Deli nk        | 2005 11 07 145516    |          78799 |
| ChemNerd       | 2006 09 15 192833    |          17568 |
| Slideshow Bob  | 2006 10 02 182214    |            566 |
| PCock          | 2006 10 02 193930    |          15586 |
| TimBuck2       | 2006 10 03 185128    |            724 |
| Edgeweyes      | 2006 10 03 192406    |           1860 |
| Gnome de plume | 2007 10 07 131013    |           4748 |
| MetrosMan      | 2009 02 03 201525    |             15 |
| Tcg2019        | 2019 10 02 194400    |              2 |
| Dwonderl       | 2019 10 03 232520    |              0 |
| Dwndlnd        | 2019 10 03 232647    |              2 |
| Mylucideyes    | 2019 10 17 190946    |              1 |
| Mwg24          | 2019 10 24 235414    |              1 |
| Questiontoask  | 2019 11 27 152232    |              5 |
+----------------+----------------------+----------------+

Also see his comments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Edgar181

[10920]

Kumioko must be jealous. Some of these active since 2006.

Rather odd that Edgar would admit it, though. He should've claimed the evidence must be wrong somehow.

[Giraffe Stapler]

Kumioko must be jealous. Some of these active since 2006.

Rather odd that Edgar would admit it, though. He should've claimed the evidence must be wrong somehow.

Perhaps he's not bothered because he has other socks or knows that he can easily start again with a new account. Full marks for the usernames.

[ZettaComposer]

6 Months later, Edgar181 returns as BU_Rob14, stuns the world with his brilliance, and is quickly given admin rights and a seat on Arbcom. Considering one of his socks was almost offered a nomination for admin and this guy seems like a very bored individual, I wouldn't put it past him.

[10920]

The known accounts combine for over 200,000 edits. Mind-boggling to maintain that many usernames, let alone make that many edits.

[Randy from Boise]

Gnome de plume (T-C-L) is still a great name.

That said... Wow, about time this person was shown the door, 316,000 edits or not...

From the Arbcom discussion page:

Except for voting at ArbCom and RFA (where, frankly, it probably has negligible effect), I don't think these were being used as good hand/bad hand, or to attack others, or support one another in discussions, were they? What possible reason could a long term (started 2005), productive (200,000+ edits over all accounts), by-my-memory good admin (and 3 other good editor accounts I recognize) have for socking? I mean, some LTA screwball? Sure, socking makes sense. Avoiding a block/ban? OK, I get it. Someone caught up in the moment and evading 3RR? Not my cup of tea, but I guess I can at least imagine it. But Edgar? Long term? I not only can't understand it, I can't even imagine understanding it. Some kind of game, maybe? If nothing else, wouldn't that be exhausting? --Floquenbeam (talk) 2:04 pm, 5 Dec. 2019 (UTC−8)

This is my reaction. Thanks for putting it into words Floq. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 2:07 pm, 5 Dec. 2019 (UTC−8)

There are cases where multiple accounts edited the same AfD; warnings were issued by one account and and then blocked with the admin account; edited the same articles; and edited the project space which is not permitted per WP:VALIDALT. Collectively, there are over 316,000 edits between all the accounts. I am sure the community will find even more examples where multiple accounts were inappropriately used. It is shocking, but it is not something that should have been allowed to continue. Mkdw talk 2:10 pm, Today (UTC−8)

The block log for Edgeweyes (link), where Edgar edit warred using the Edgeweyes account, then blocked both Edgeweyes and the IP Edgeweyes/Edgar was edit warring with. See the edit history in May 2017 for State-sponsored terrorism. Katietalk 2:14 pm, Today (UTC−8)

link

RfB

[Beeblebrox]

Just saw this, I am likewise mystified by it.

I'm also insanely curious to know how we was trying to stack the deck in ACE, but that information is probably not forthcoming unless Edgar pipes up about it.

Meanwhile, over on Commons Roddhullandemu is concerned about gross abuses of trust at EN.WP being used as the basis for sanctions on Commons. I wonder why that might be? https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.p ... =379161620

[Osborne]

Perhaps he's not bothered because he has other socks or knows that he can easily start again with a new account. Full marks for the usernames.

I’m confident that there are more accounts

Edgar claims he did it "for fun". Such a ridiculous explanation to give, that it makes me think the real reason would be more damning and reveal more socks.

[el84]

I found it hilarious that Edgar had to be the one to shut down an edit war on his talk page because the usual suspects were trying to keep provocative comments on there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =929469323

[tarantino]

Judging from his commons uploads (where he's still a sysop) he's a chemist.

He made a game out of it. Good for him for pulling it off for so long.

[Randy from Boise]

TimBuck2 | 2006 10 03 185128 | 724 |

By the way, Tim Buck (T-H-L) was a leading Canadian Communist during the Stalin years. Sort of their Earl Browder (T-H-L) or Harry Pollitt (T-H-L) figure.

RfB

[Osborne]

I found it hilarious that Edgar had to be the one to shut down an edit war on his talk page because the usual suspects were trying to keep provocative comments on there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =929469323

It is hilarious that TonyBallioni - a functionary - joins an editwar to side with his favored fellow, restoring '''How the fuck ''could'' you?'''. Good judgment, as expected /sarc.

[Beeblebrox]

The whole show on his talk page the last few hours is an embarrassment. Like, I agree with the sentiment behind Boing's comments, but what did making those comments accomplish? Nothing.

I get that its upsetting for some folks to see an admin getting away with this for such a long time, but this guy clearly doesn't care and it's all a big joke, so why even talk to him? It's not like he's going to get unblocked anytime in the next decade or so.

It's also pretty clear, as Risker remarked over at the arbcom announcement about this, that he pretty much had to know this would get him caught. ACE is as far as I know the only times that literally everyone who participates really is checkusered by default, which such an experienced admin would've known, and just to make sure he got caught he apparently created some new accounts as well. The less attention he is paid now the better as far as I'm concerned, since he clearly set out to cause a scene.

[Carcharoth]

The less attention he is paid now the better as far as I'm concerned, since he clearly set out to cause a scene.

Says the person who started this thread with the words "Feels like this needs its own thread"...

(A number of people said they remembered interacting with him or were familiar with him, I don't recognise the name at all - how would I find out if I interacted with him or his socks?)


Moderator's note: In fact, the thread was started by Mr. 10920, not Mr. Beeblebrox.

[Jans Hammer]

I always thought PCock's contributions stood out more than most.

I've never used a rude word once in all my 13 years and 100K edits, but I can certainly forgive Blade for his outburst. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 3:22 am, Today (UTC+0)

No, he just threatened to throw his beer over people if he ever met them at a meet-up!

[Giraffe Stapler]

TimBuck2 | 2006 10 03 185128 | 724 |

By the way, Tim Buck (T-H-L) was a leading Canadian Communist during the Stalin years. Sort of their Earl Browder (T-H-L) or Harry Pollitt (T-H-L) figure.

RfB

Say it out loud. TimBuck2 = Timbuktu.

[Poetlister]

6 Months later, Edgar181 returns as BU_Rob14, stuns the world with his brilliance, and is quickly given admin rights and a seat on Arbcom. Considering one of his socks was almost offered a nomination for admin and this guy seems like a very bored individual, I wouldn't put it past him.

I doubt that he'll return. it was a game, he had his fun and got bored with it so he decided to go out with the biggest bang he could.

[Osborne]

Feels like this needs its own thread.

The less attention he is paid now the better as far as I'm concerned, since he clearly set out to cause a scene.

Says the person who started this thread with the words "Feels like this needs its own thread"...

?

[Carcharoth]

Feels like this needs its own thread.

The less attention he is paid now the better as far as I'm concerned, since he clearly set out to cause a scene.

Says the person who started this thread with the words "Feels like this needs its own thread"...

?

Oops. Misread that for some reason!

Can't edit the original post now, sorry Beeblebrox.

[10920]

It would be a disservice not to give this its own thread. One of the bigger scandals of recent years.

[Randy from Boise]

TimBuck2 | 2006 10 03 185128 | 724 |

By the way, Tim Buck (T-H-L) was a leading Canadian Communist during the Stalin years. Sort of their Earl Browder (T-H-L) or Harry Pollitt (T-H-L) figure.

RfB

Say it out loud. TimBuck2 = Timbuktu.

I totally missed that!

TimDum1

[Jans Hammer]

The whole show on his talk page the last few hours is an embarrassment. Like, I agree with the sentiment behind Boing's comments, but what did making those comments accomplish? Nothing.

I get that its upsetting for some folks to see an admin getting away with this for such a long time, but this guy clearly doesn't care and it's all a big joke, so why even talk to him? It's not like he's going to get unblocked anytime in the next decade or so.

It's also pretty clear, as Risker remarked over at the arbcom announcement about this, that he pretty much had to know this would get him caught. ACE is as far as I know the only times that literally everyone who participates really is checkusered by default, which such an experienced admin would've known, and just to make sure he got caught he apparently created some new accounts as well. The less attention he is paid now the better as far as I'm concerned, since he clearly set out to cause a scene.

One of his medium sized socks has probably produced more encyclopedic content than most of the folks shouting for his head. And he's took the piss out of an inept institution.

[Beeblebrox]

I'm pretty darn sure I recall responding to reports at admin noticeboards from some of these socks. So, what's the fun there? "I am an admin, and I could deal with this completely straightforward boring admin task myself in ten seconds, but it would be so much funnier if I just reported with one of my other accounts and somebody else spent ten seconds dealing with it. HA HA HA" yeah I don't get it.

Of course one could write a doctoral dissertation on all the weird motivations of WP trolls and LTAs, and I realized a long time ago I don't really get exactly what motivates a lot of them, but this one is truly mystifying to me.

[Midsize Jake]

I'm pretty darn sure I recall responding to reports at admin noticeboards from some of these socks. So, what's the fun there? "I am an admin, and I could deal with this completely straightforward boring admin task myself in ten seconds, but it would be so much funnier if I just reported with one of my other accounts and somebody else spent ten seconds dealing with it. HA HA HA" yeah I don't get it.

Trying to find out "how far you can get" with something, or "how much you can get away with," is a common narcissistic motivation as it ties in with the whole inflated (and/or grandiose) self-conception problem. But I suspect the key thing in a case like this is that one's motivation for starting along this path is often quite different from one's motivation for continuing on it and maintaining it, and those two motivations tend to diverge more as time goes on.

I haven't looked into this case in any great detail, but if I had to guess, what probably happened here is that this person thought he could get a small ego-boost from "putting one over" on people he believed would be smart enough to catch him doing it, and when they didn't, he either got bored, careless, or both. Then the question becomes, "did he get the ego boost?" Because if he did, that might explain why he kept at it for so long. It's also possible that at some point, the others' failure to catch him at it actually became offensive to him, because it suggested that they weren't paying sufficient attention to his brilliance or whatever.

But that, in turn, begs the question, "how does one get an ego boost from such a silly and largely anonymous activity?" (Referring to sock-puppeting, not editing in general.) That I don't really know, other than to say that narcissists generally lack the ability to self-reflect.

[Vigilant]

The known accounts combine for over 200,000 edits. Mind-boggling to maintain that many usernames, let alone make that many edits.

VMs

[Pudeo]

Edgard181 voted atleast in 39 RfAs, Deli nk in 50 RfAs, PCock in 3 RfAs, Gnome de plume in 4 RfAs, TimBuck2 in 3 RfAs and Slideshow Bob in 2 RfA.

We know that voting in a RfA is good way to get CU'd, and that people like Kumioko have had some of their longer standing socks instantly blocked after they voted in one. So how did he get away with all of those?

[10920]

There are several possibilities.

One is that being checkusered by Bbb is only for the newish accounts voting in RfA. Perhaps he doesn't CU old accounts like these.

Another is that Edgar was careful with the technical aspects all along, but with the ArbCom elections, he wanted to be caught and didn't bother covering his tracks (or even using different IPs). It seems he didn't care that much about being caught now.

And there's still more.

[DHeyward]

A person that invested in WP likely has another admin account to so casually throw them away. I wonder which arbcom candidate/member s/he was? I am sure the spectrum kids will find their IRL identity.

[Poetlister]

A person that invested in WP likely has another admin account to so casually throw them away. I wonder which arbcom candidate/member s/he was? I am sure the spectrum kids will find their IRL identity.

As I say, it was a game, he had his fun and got bored with it. I am inclined to think that he has no more accounts, or he would have used them too for the Arbcom voting. However it is conceivable that he held something back, or maybe he used another one but used a different IP so it wouldn't show up on the CU. Time may or may not tell.

[Beeblebrox]

I feel like this incident is leading to increased paranoia, bordering on a moral panic (T-H-L) both here and on-wiki. This is probably all very amusing to Edgar, who clearly thinks he's the smartest guy in the room and is suitably pleased at the drama coming out of this, while previous drama mongers are probably disappointed that their day as the latest scandal is over.

Let's consider some points:

-Has anyone looked at just how established these accounts were before they started voting at RFA? What about how they voted? Both might give some clue as to why they weren't detected.

-Despite what some of you think, Not every single user who gets CU'd upon their first vote at RFA. Not even by Bbb23. This case itself is evidence of that.

-Kumioko is not a good example to measure anyone else against unless we're comparing persecution complexes and monomania levels.

-I know we all love a good conspiracy here, but the idea that most admins are socking and arbcom is fully aware of it is laughable.

I am of course not saying there is 100% not any other admin socking going on. There probably is. And there's probably admins eagling in paid editing as well. And probably other, worse stuff that we'll never even know about because whoever is doing it will get office banned. All I'm saying is that most users, admins and arbs included, aren't. Most of us are honestly acting in good faith and not treating it as some giant "look how clever I am" game like Edgar was. Opinions may differ on how smart that makes us, but in my experience that's the way it is.

You may begin attacking me for daring to say such a thing now.

[ShinkawaGirl]

Edgar181 was naive and made a big mistake. Had he not socked in the arb com elections he would have never been caught.
Every account is checkusered by default,
Time Name Domain IP XFF User agent CSRF Dup
2019-11-30T10:22:24 ShinwakaGirl en.wikipedia.org X.Y.Z.M e.f.g.h, i.j.k.l, m.n.o.p Mozilla/X.Y (qqqqq) zzz

Lesson Never sock in arbcom elections.

[Osborne]

You may begin attacking me for daring to say such a thing now.

Your opinion is welcome. Even if someone would disagree, that would not be an attack on you, just a different opinion.

[Beeblebrox]

Edgar181 was naive and made a big mistake. Had he not socked in the arb com elections he would have never been caught.
Every account is checkusered by default,
Time Name Domain IP XFF User agent CSRF Dup
2019-11-30T10:22:24 ShinwakaGirl en.wikipedia.org X.Y.Z.M e.f.g.h, i.j.k.l, m.n.o.p Mozilla/X.Y (qqqqq) zzz

Lesson Never sock in arbcom elections.

Wow, no, that's not it at all. This guy was anything but naive.

[Neil]

Edgard181 voted atleast in 39 RfAs, Deli nk in 50 RfAs, PCock in 3 RfAs, Gnome de plume in 4 RfAs, TimBuck2 in 3 RfAs and Slideshow Bob in 2 RfA.

We know that voting in a RfA is good way to get CU'd, and that people like Kumioko have had some of their longer standing socks instantly blocked after they voted in one. So how did he get away with all of those?

One account on home computer, one on work or on a mobile device, never the twain shall meet, easy enough.

[Eric Corbett]

Edgard181 voted atleast in 39 RfAs, Deli nk in 50 RfAs, PCock in 3 RfAs, Gnome de plume in 4 RfAs, TimBuck2 in 3 RfAs and Slideshow Bob in 2 RfA.

We know that voting in a RfA is good way to get CU'd, and that people like Kumioko have had some of their longer standing socks instantly blocked after they voted in one. So how did he get away with all of those?

One account on home computer, one on work or on a mobile device, never the twain shall meet, easy enough.

The technical bit is easy enough, but there's always the mysterious "behavioral evidence" for the checkusers to fall back on if all else fails.

[Randy from Boise]

Adding a community ban to the arbcom ban...

link

RfB

[Poetlister]

Adding a community ban to the arbcom ban...

link

RfB

To gild refined gold, to paint the lily,
To throw a perfume on the violet,
To smooth the ice, or add another hue
Unto the rainbow, or with taper-light
To seek the beauteous eye of heaven to garnish,
Is wasteful and ridiculous excess.

[Randy from Boise]

Adding a community ban to the arbcom ban...

link

RfB

To gild refined gold, to paint the lily,
To throw a perfume on the violet,
To smooth the ice, or add another hue
Unto the rainbow, or with taper-light
To seek the beauteous eye of heaven to garnish,
Is wasteful and ridiculous excess.

Now it's a perfect Catch-22: Arbcom can't unban because he's under a community ban. The Community can't unban because he's under an Arbcom ban.

Meanwhile, he is doubtlessly merrily socking away...

RfB

[Osborne]

Now it's a perfect Catch-22: Arbcom can't unban because he's under a community ban. The Community can't unban because he's under an Arbcom ban.
Meanwhile, he is doubtlessly merrily socking away...

You captured the hilarity of the bureaucratism on WP perfectly.

[10920]

Adding a community ban to the arbcom ban...

link

RfB

To gild refined gold, to paint the lily,
To throw a perfume on the violet,
To smooth the ice, or add another hue
Unto the rainbow, or with taper-light
To seek the beauteous eye of heaven to garnish,
Is wasteful and ridiculous excess.

What an amazing waste of time to have a discussion/vote about it. What exactly was ToBeFree worried about? That ArbCom would suddenly decide to unban Edgar? As if a ban actually matters anyway. There's really a dearth of reasonable people when the response to someone bringing up a double secret probation ban isn't "go waste your time on something else".

If Edgar so desires, he will continue editing under other accounts/IPs. It he doesn't, then the ban is hardly necessary.

[Poetlister]

Now it's a perfect Catch-22: Arbcom can't unban because he's under a community ban. The Community can't unban because he's under an Arbcom ban.

I assume that that was the intention of the person starting the community ban discussion. But I suppose the Arbs, were they so minded, could start another discussion saying that they were considering an unban and what did people think? Arbcom could arrange for lots of people to support this, and to have a friendly crat close it as an unban on the balance of the arguments if it looked like a majority was opposed. Still, that's all totally hypothetical.

[Eric Corbett]

Now it's a perfect Catch-22: Arbcom can't unban because he's under a community ban. The Community can't unban because he's under an Arbcom ban.

I assume that that was the intention of the person starting the community ban discussion. But I suppose the Arbs, were they so minded, could start another discussion saying that they were considering an unban and what did people think? Arbcom could arrange for lots of people to support this, and to have a friendly crat close it as an unban on the balance of the arguments if it looked like a majority was opposed. Still, that's all totally hypothetical.

But none of that really matters. Either Edgar has got fed up and left or he's using his other socks. The bans are quite meaningless.

[Beeblebrox]

This came up in the ACE thread as well. Near as I can tell, the concern is in fact that a future arbcom would be lenient and unban him. While I might normally sympathize with that position I don't think it's at all likely in this particular case, uess we're looking way, way into the future, and I'm not super concerned if he gets unbanned by the 2035 arbcom.

[Osborne]

This came up in the ACE thread as well. Near as I can tell, the concern is in fact that a future arbcom would be lenient and unban him. While I might normally sympathize with that position I don't think it's at all likely in this particular case, uess we're looking way, way into the future, and I'm not super concerned if he gets unbanned by the 2035 arbcom.

I was so surprised at that thought and even more surprised that multiple people would be really concerned about that. What is the reasoning behind such presumption? He's not the first sockmaster to be banned and we don't see them coming back, ever.

[Poetlister]

He's not the first sockmaster to be banned and we don't see them coming back, ever.

That's because they've learnt from their mistakes and don't repeat them so don't get caught.

[Randy from Boise]

He's not the first sockmaster to be banned and we don't see them coming back, ever.

That's because they've learnt from their mistakes and don't repeat them so don't get caught.

You would know.

RfB

[Anroth]

This came up in the ACE thread as well. Near as I can tell, the concern is in fact that a future arbcom would be lenient and unban him. While I might normally sympathize with that position I don't think it's at all likely in this particular case, uess we're looking way, way into the future, and I'm not super concerned if he gets unbanned by the 2035 arbcom.

I was so surprised at that thought and even more surprised that multiple people would be really concerned about that. What is the reasoning behind such presumption? He's not the first sockmaster to be banned and we don't see them coming back, ever.

There have been quite a few examples where administrators have unbanned people the community in general would not have accepted back. Usually this is as a result of an indef block on an editor. So now rather than trusting Admins (and by extention, Arbcom) to correctly gauge community thoughts (given the massive amount of evidence that shows them reaaalllllyy bad at it) the only way the community can, by policy, make sure someone isnt allowed back without their consultation, is to implement a community ban. There are also some other policy considerations where community banned editors are treated differently (to do with the difference between 'blocked' and 'banned').

In short, no it wouldnt be needed if Admins didnt have a habit of unblocking people who should stay blocked.

[Eric Corbett]

He's not the first sockmaster to be banned and we don't see them coming back, ever.

That's because they've learnt from their mistakes and don't repeat them so don't get caught.

You would know.

RfB

And you wouldn't?

[Eric Corbett]

In short, no it wouldnt be needed if Admins didnt have a habit of unblocking people who should stay blocked.

Or conversely, if admins didn't have a habit of blocking people who shouldn't be blocked.

[Anroth]

Or conversely, if admins didn't have a habit of blocking people who shouldn't be blocked.

That doesnt really have any relevance to editors subject to community bans. They dont start community ban discussions on editors who have been blocked unfairly in order to keep them blocked.