Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
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Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
Berean Hunter(T-C-F-L) has just:
1. Range-blocked triple-C - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:C ... 26.0.0/18- a major Israeli ISP for 3 years. (No hunter, this is not is not a proxy - but one of the top ISPs in Israel). You can see their internet packages here - https://www.kamaze.co.il/Companies/6437 ... t-Packages
2. Range blocked HOT (mobile + cable + ISP) - but "only" for 6 months - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:C ... 2.160.0/20 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:C ... 6.128.0/20
So - cutting off like 25% of the Israeli internet from Wikipedia for 6 months.
Showing his true colors, Mr. Hunter thought it fit and proper to do the following edits:
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =928478595 - adding a Holocaust denier's opinion (David Cole, published in Taki) on Holocaust denial.
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =928538210 - "President of the so called State of Israel"
3. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =928823762 - describing Israel as Palestine (Acre, part of Israel since 1948).
And there are dozens of other outright vandalism examples in that revert spree by mr. Hunter.
Was mr. Hunter reverting a sock? Perhaps. However the sock account was reverting another sock (for those following - Claíomh Solais (T-C-L) has been fighting Yaniv) or vandal.
Good call Wikipedia.
1. Range-blocked triple-C - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:C ... 26.0.0/18- a major Israeli ISP for 3 years. (No hunter, this is not is not a proxy - but one of the top ISPs in Israel). You can see their internet packages here - https://www.kamaze.co.il/Companies/6437 ... t-Packages
2. Range blocked HOT (mobile + cable + ISP) - but "only" for 6 months - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:C ... 2.160.0/20 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:C ... 6.128.0/20
So - cutting off like 25% of the Israeli internet from Wikipedia for 6 months.
Showing his true colors, Mr. Hunter thought it fit and proper to do the following edits:
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =928478595 - adding a Holocaust denier's opinion (David Cole, published in Taki) on Holocaust denial.
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =928538210 - "President of the so called State of Israel"
3. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =928823762 - describing Israel as Palestine (Acre, part of Israel since 1948).
And there are dozens of other outright vandalism examples in that revert spree by mr. Hunter.
Was mr. Hunter reverting a sock? Perhaps. However the sock account was reverting another sock (for those following - Claíomh Solais (T-C-L) has been fighting Yaniv) or vandal.
Good call Wikipedia.
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Re: Antisemitism rears its ugly head on Wikipedia
Also -
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =928911024 - BLP violation - naming a journalist as a "notorious sex offender". Twice! Still there BTW.
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =928833011 - restoring "Do Not trust wikipedia" to bottom of article. Still there. Ironic.
3. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =928833022 - Erroneously changing Mandatory Palestine to Israel - which did not exist in 1938. Twice - still there.
4. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =928833055 - removing "allegedly" - thus justifying medieval blood libel and a massacre. Still there.
Flipping through policy - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... icy#revert - Many of Mr. Hunter's reverts fall foul of:
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =928911024 - BLP violation - naming a journalist as a "notorious sex offender". Twice! Still there BTW.
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =928833011 - restoring "Do Not trust wikipedia" to bottom of article. Still there. Ironic.
3. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =928833022 - Erroneously changing Mandatory Palestine to Israel - which did not exist in 1938. Twice - still there.
4. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =928833055 - removing "allegedly" - thus justifying medieval blood libel and a massacre. Still there.
Flipping through policy - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... icy#revert - Many of Mr. Hunter's reverts fall foul of:
Beyond outright vandalism and NPOV issues, there are serious BLP issues - rising to the level of libel (e.g. - https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =928911024)When reverting edits, care should be taken not to reinstate material that may be in violation of such core policies as neutrality, verifiability, and biographies of living persons.
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Re: Antisemitism rears its ugly head on Wikipedia
These three look like sloppiness more than anything else.Icewhiz wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:40 pmShowing his true colors, Mr. Hunter thought it fit and proper to do the following edits:
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =928478595 - adding a Holocaust denier's opinion (David Cole, published in Taki) on Holocaust denial.
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =928538210 - "President of the so called State of Israel"
3. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =928823762 - describing Israel as Palestine (Acre, part of Israel since 1948).
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Re: Antisemitism rears its ugly head on Wikipedia
Hey, the venerable Anti-Israel = Anti-Semitism trope gets a second thread at WPO!
I'm sure there are a couple English sorts who are very excited at the prospect...
RfB
I'm sure there are a couple English sorts who are very excited at the prospect...
RfB
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Re: Antisemitism rears its ugly head on Wikipedia
I am verklempt.
My avatar is sometimes indicative of my mood:
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Re: Antisemitism rears its ugly head on Wikipedia
A look at BH's talk page reveals a litany of "hey you screwed this up" messages.
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Re: Antisemitism rears its ugly head on Wikipedia
Could we get the title of this thread changed to something with a basis in reality?
Like "Berian Hunter blocks half of Israel" or whatever is fine, making up lies about his motivations, not so much.
Like "Berian Hunter blocks half of Israel" or whatever is fine, making up lies about his motivations, not so much.
information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
Even Randy's hero Jeremy Corbyn accepts the internationally approved IHRA definition of anti-Semitism, which explains how refusing to acept the right of the State of Israel to exist might sometimes be anti-Semitism. That Randy refuses to accept it shows an attitude which, were it to be applied to any other minority, he would condemn unequivocally.Randy from Boise wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:53 pmHey, the venerable Anti-Israel = Anti-Semitism trope gets a second thread at WPO!
I'm sure there are a couple English sorts who are very excited at the prospect...
RfB
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
The government of Israel can and should be criticized like any other government. We can both recognize their right to exist and be critical of their actions, it really isn't that hard.
Yet some would have us believe that saying anything the least bit critical of the government's actions is the same as chanting "death to Israel".
It isn't.
Yet some would have us believe that saying anything the least bit critical of the government's actions is the same as chanting "death to Israel".
It isn't.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
OK, done. I tried to come up with something funnier, but for some reason I'm feeling a little off today.Beeblebrox wrote:Could we get the title of this thread changed to something with a basis in reality?
Like "Berian Hunter blocks half of Israel" or whatever is fine...
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
BH edits were not "criticism of the government of Israel". Specifically:Beeblebrox wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:11 pmThe government of Israel can and should be criticized like any other government. We can both recognize their right to exist and be critical of their actions, it really isn't that hard.
Yet some would have us believe that saying anything the least bit critical of the government's actions is the same as chanting "death to Israel".
It isn't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =928538210 + https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =928538210 - are denial of the existence of Israel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =928478595 - inserts the opinions of Holocaust deniers on Holocaust denial.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =928833055 - treats antisemitic blood libel (in the truly literal sense - 1475 blood libel) - as factual.
None of this is criticism of the government of Israel. As for BH's motivations - one can only speculate. His actions, however, speak volumes, prima facie.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
What I accept is that the premise of an "anti-Semitic left" is itself ridiculous, that the absurd definition of "anti-semitism" presented as an axiom here is a bit of bureaucratic malarkey, and that this whole topic is a conscious political plan of the Conservative Party for the purposes of elections, to divert attention from their failure on Brexit. Gobbled up by the Blairites, who are always anxious to follow their Tory friends.Poetlister wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:57 pmEven Randy's hero Jeremy Corbyn accepts the internationally approved IHRA definition of anti-Semitism, which explains how refusing to acept the right of the State of Israel to exist might sometimes be anti-Semitism. That Randy refuses to accept it shows an attitude which, were it to be applied to any other minority, he would condemn unequivocally.Randy from Boise wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:53 pmHey, the venerable Anti-Israel = Anti-Semitism trope gets a second thread at WPO!
I'm sure there are a couple English sorts who are very excited at the prospect...
RfB
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Re: Antisemitism rears its ugly head on Wikipedia
Those two IP ranges are about 83,000 addresses and only blocked for anonymous editing and account creation. Those ranges could still be used if an account was created on a different range. There's lots of proxies, webhosts and cellular on them. All of T-Mobile is blocked the same way for a year. They have an estimated 59 million users.Icewhiz wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:40 pmBerean Hunter(T-C-F-L) has just:
1. Range-blocked triple-C - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:C ... 26.0.0/18- a major Israeli ISP for 3 years. (No hunter, this is not is not a proxy - but one of the top ISPs in Israel). You can see their internet packages here - https://www.kamaze.co.il/Companies/6437 ... t-Packages
2. Range blocked HOT (mobile + cable + ISP) - but "only" for 6 months - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:C ... 2.160.0/20 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:C ... 6.128.0/20
So - cutting off like 25% of the Israeli internet from Wikipedia for 6 months.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
What I'm seeing in those edits is BH doing a shitty job of reverting socks. It's a known risk when you spend all your time battling socks that sometimes you just revert without even looking at what you're reverting.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by just doing a half-assed job when you're in too big of a hurry.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by just doing a half-assed job when you're in too big of a hurry.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
Now, this struck me as interesting for some reason. It's a fairly recent attempted addition (by an IP that geolocates to Seattle, WA) that could perhaps be charitably interpreted as an effort to show how Holocaust deniers are all mixed up to the point that they don't even get any respect from other Holocaust deniers, which is... sort-of good, right? In which case maybe you'd want to leave it in...? Or is it more of a "never give them an inch" or "don't give them any oxygen" rationale?Icewhiz wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:51 pmhttps://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =928478595 - inserts the opinions of Holocaust deniers on Holocaust denial.
I agree that the other reverts he made were really stupid (and possibly anti-semitic too), but many of us have been saying knee-jerk sock-puppet reverts are stupid since the beginning, and you could apply Hanlon's razor (T-H-L) there — again, if you were inclined to be charitable.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
The are many flavors of Holocaust deniers: neo-Nazis (some of whom deny everything), Russian nationalist/anti-communists (who try to downplay Hitler and shift Hitler's crimes to Stalin + tinge of traditional Russian antisemitism), self hating Jews of very varied stripes, and even fellows like David Icke who claim WWII (and the Holocaust) was a great lizard conspiracy (which some involves or is code for Jews).Midsize Jake wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:19 amNow, this struck me as interesting for some reason. It's a fairly recent attempted addition (by an IP that geolocates to Seattle, WA) that could perhaps be charitably interpreted as an effort to show how Holocaust deniers are all mixed up to the point that they don't even get any respect from other Holocaust deniers, which is... sort-of good, right? In which case maybe you'd want to leave it in...? Or is it more of a "never give them an inch" or "don't give them any oxygen" rationale?Icewhiz wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:51 pmhttps://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =928478595 - inserts the opinions of Holocaust deniers on Holocaust denial.
I agree that the other reverts he made were really stupid (and possibly anti-semitic too), but many of us have been saying knee-jerk sock-puppet reverts are stupid since the beginning, and you could apply Hanlon's razor (T-H-L) there — again, if you were inclined to be charitable.
One of the oldest tropes in the Holocaust denial book is differentiating one's self from other Holocaust deniers - e.g. "I accept that Hitler killed some Jews, shot some Jews, he just didn't build gas chambers at the so called extermination camps". That passage has - "David Irving is no longer a denier, if he ever was one. He accepts the fact that Jews were slaughtered en masse by mobile Einsatzgruppen....".
In short - nothing much new here - yes - Holocaust deniers criticize (and even strongly disagree) with other Holocaust deniers. David Irving and David Icke (lizards) come from very different places.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
You are assuming he looked at all. He is using a mass rollback tool and reverting hundreds of edits in seconds. He hasn't looked at all.Beeblebrox wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:56 pmWhat I'm seeing in those edits is BH doing a shitty job of reverting socks. It's a known risk when you spend all your time battling socks that sometimes you just revert without even looking at what you're reverting.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by just doing a half-assed job when you're in too big of a hurry.
Considering this particular editor he is reverting mostly undos IP vandalism (half of BH's reverts were reintroducing random gibberish (e.g. ifgfkfj) to articles) - that's beyond careless. He even ran foul of REVERTBAN (e.g. introducing clear libelous BLP vios).
There was an ARBCOM case on mass rollback recently - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... ollback.js -
GiantSnowman (T-C-L) nearly lost his tools.... (4 supports, 6 opposes).MassRollback.js
3) massRollback.js is a user script that any registered user may install. While installed, administrators and rollbackers are shown a link-button to display a confirmation window and then to mass rollback the contributions of a selected editor. Mass rollbacking is equivalent to opening a user's contributions (up to 500 at once) and clicking each rollback link-button. The process is completed in a manner of seconds.
The massRollback.js user script was designed for use in combatting obvious, serious abuse. Before using the script, rollbackers or administrators are expected to review the target account's contributions and be sure that every edit needs rolling back.
Passed 11 to 0 at 18:08, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
Will BH, an elevated CU, but ridden roughshod like GiantSnowman for his careless (and from my check - this is habitual) and counter-policy use of tools? This is habitual by BH - his contribution feed has long runs of reverts performed in the same minute.
Probably not. ABRCOM is sympathetic to these sort of people these days.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
Coming soon to my user page:
Beeblebrox's Law of File 13
Beeblebrox's Law of File 13
RfBNever attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained as one just doing a half-assed job when they're in too big of a hurry.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
Mark me down in favor of range-blocking IP editing for all of Earth, by the way.
RfB
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
Nationalist trope? Rational outlook. I'm not particularly tied to Judaism.Randy from Boise wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:11 pmI knew it wouldn't take you too long to get around to that hoary right wing nationalist trope, easily translatable as "Jews who disagree with me, the protector of One True Judaism."
RfB
The very few Jewish Holocaust deniers - such as Gilad Atzmon - are embraced as "token Jews" by the antisemitic radical left (A UK thing these days) and the antisemitic radical right (A US thing these days).
People who probably wouldn't have gotten any attention otherwise, get attention since they declare as Jewish - coupled with overt Holocaust denial or other antisemitic expressions.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
I think theis is a straw man. Of course the government of Israel is open to criticism. I don't think that anyone here would disagree. But there is a clear line between genuine legitimate criticism and the sort of thing that the IHRA definition of anti-Semitism condemns.Beeblebrox wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:11 pmThe government of Israel can and should be criticized like any other government. We can both recognize their right to exist and be critical of their actions, it really isn't that hard.
Yet some would have us believe that saying anything the least bit critical of the government's actions is the same as chanting "death to Israel".
It isn't.
"The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
In recent months Bbb23, Beetstra and now Berean Hunter all did a "shitty job of reverting socks", including the restoration of vandalism. To avoid these failures, the use of the rollback tool has strict rules, which they did not follow. Do you call a violation of rules "malice"? Does not matter. What matters is: they are causing damage to the encyclopedia. You don't need to apologize for them. What's needed to avoid such damage in the future is the appropriate person telling them to do a better job.Beeblebrox wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:56 pmWhat I'm seeing in those edits is BH doing a shitty job of reverting socks. It's a known risk when you spend all your time battling socks that sometimes you just revert without even looking at what you're reverting.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by just doing a half-assed job when you're in too big of a hurry.
Burnout is a serious issue for long-term wikipedians that results in negligence, lazyness and superficial, bad decisions. Not to blame them for losing motivation to do a good job, however, if they've lost their motivation, it's better for the encyclopedia if they don't use their tools. Admining and especially checkuser is difficult, high-trust and high-responsibility roles. If one's not up to the task, they are not required to do it. They are volunteers, after all.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
The left as a whole is not anti-Semitic. Nor is anti-Semitism confined to the left. But Randy's dismissal of the IHRA definition, accepted by the Labour Party, as "a bit of bureaucratic malarkey" is breathtaking. And of course the fact that the majority of Labour MPs, even such stalwarts of the left as Angela Rayner and Margaret Hodge, have condemned anti-Semitism in the Labour Party is dismissed as a Tory smear. Oh of course, Margaret Hodge is a Zionist so although she's lived in Britain all her life she doesn't understand English irony. But Angela Rayner isn't a Zionist as far as I know.Randy from Boise wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:06 pmWhat I accept is that the premise of an "anti-Semitic left" is itself ridiculous, that the absurd definition of "anti-semitism" presented as an axiom here is a bit of bureaucratic malarkey, and that this whole topic is a conscious political plan of the Conservative Party for the purposes of elections, to divert attention from their failure on Brexit. Gobbled up by the Blairites, who are always anxious to follow their Tory friends.Poetlister wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:57 pmEven Randy's hero Jeremy Corbyn accepts the internationally approved IHRA definition of anti-Semitism, which explains how refusing to acept the right of the State of Israel to exist might sometimes be anti-Semitism. That Randy refuses to accept it shows an attitude which, were it to be applied to any other minority, he would condemn unequivocally.Randy from Boise wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:53 pmHey, the venerable Anti-Israel = Anti-Semitism trope gets a second thread at WPO!
I'm sure there are a couple English sorts who are very excited at the prospect...
RfB
tim
Last edited by Poetlister on Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
No results found for "Gilad Atzmon" +token; six results found without quotes, none containing the word "token." (On the plus side though, this thread will soon be The One and Only!)
I hope you'll forgive me, but I've removed your underlining from the (still boldfaced) term, which may have suggested to some readers that there was a web page somewhere backing this up.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
None of them believe that the rules apply to them, so they run amok. Berean Hunter, to take just one example, caused far more harm to the encyclopedia that Dr Horncastle ever did by reverting all of the latter's edits, none of which were harmful.Osborne wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:02 pmIn recent months Bbb23, Beetstra and now Berean Hunter all did a "shitty job of reverting socks", including the restoration of vandalism. To avoid these failures, the use of the rollback tool has strict rules, which they did not follow. Do you call a violation of rules "malice"? Does not matter. What matters is: they are causing damage to the encyclopedia. You don't need to apologize for them. What's needed to avoid such damage in the future is the appropriate person telling them to do a better job.
More generally, I fail to see how organisations can be anti-Semitic, as opposed to the members of that organisation being anti-Semitic.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
There is an organisation called Jewish Voice for Labour (JVL), set up to "prove" that many Jews do not support the idea that there is substantial anti-Semitism in Labour. It has been described thus:
“It is an organisation which is not just tiny but has no real connection with the Jewish community at all. It doesn’t represent the Jewish community in a way that JLM [the Jewish Labour Movement] clearly does represent the Labour wing of the Jewish community.”
Which Blairite Tory Breitbart contributor said that? Jon Lansman (T-H-L), yet another Zionist who doesn't understand English irony.
“It is an organisation which is not just tiny but has no real connection with the Jewish community at all. It doesn’t represent the Jewish community in a way that JLM [the Jewish Labour Movement] clearly does represent the Labour wing of the Jewish community.”
Which Blairite Tory Breitbart contributor said that? Jon Lansman (T-H-L), yet another Zionist who doesn't understand English irony.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
I think he was just trying to be polite.Poetlister wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:09 pmThe left as a whole is not anti-Semitic. Nor is anti-Semitism confined to the left. But Randy's dismissal of the IHRA definition, accepted by the Labour Party, as "a bit of bureaucratic malarkey" is breathtaking.
Also, Jeremy Corbyn did try to add an accompanying clarification to Labour's acceptance of the IHRA definition, which stated that it should not be "regarded as antisemitic to describe Israel, its policies or the circumstances around its foundation as racist because of their discriminatory impact, or to support another settlement of the Israel-Palestine conflict," but I guess it was voted down.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
I accept the idea that organisations can have aims, but not that they can have attitudes or opinions.Poetlister wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:20 pmThere is an organisation called Jewish Voice for Labour (JVL), set up to "prove" that many Jews do not support the idea that there is substantial anti-Semitism in Labour.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
Indeed. That's why Beeblebrox should not be apologizing for them, but rather persuade them to care about the rules.Eric Corbett wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:16 pmNone of them believe that the rules apply to them, so they run amok. Berean Hunter, to take just one example, caused far more harm to the encyclopedia that Dr Horncastle ever did by reverting all of the latter's edits, none of which were harmful.Osborne wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:02 pmIn recent months Bbb23, Beetstra and now Berean Hunter all did a "shitty job of reverting socks", including the restoration of vandalism. To avoid these failures, the use of the rollback tool has strict rules, which they did not follow. Do you call a violation of rules "malice"? Does not matter. What matters is: they are causing damage to the encyclopedia. You don't need to apologize for them. What's needed to avoid such damage in the future is the appropriate person telling them to do a better job.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
I think John McDonnell and Jon Lansman persuaded him to drop his proposal.Midsize Jake wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:21 pmI think he was just trying to be polite.Poetlister wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:09 pmThe left as a whole is not anti-Semitic. Nor is anti-Semitism confined to the left. But Randy's dismissal of the IHRA definition, accepted by the Labour Party, as "a bit of bureaucratic malarkey" is breathtaking.
Also, Jeremy Corbyn did try to add an accompanying clarification to Labour's acceptance of the IHRA definition, which stated that it should not be "regarded as antisemitic to describe Israel, its policies or the circumstances around its foundation as racist because of their discriminatory impact, or to support another settlement of the Israel-Palestine conflict," but I guess it was voted down.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
I'm curious as to how me saying someone did a shitty job at their work constitutes an apology.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
Beeblebrox wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:06 amI'm curious as to how me saying someone did a shitty [half-assed] job [in too big of a hurry] at their work constitutes an apology.
That's how.Beeblebrox wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:56 pmNever attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by just doing a half-assed job when you're in too big of a hurry.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
No, it really, really isn't. Here's my actual, full quote:Osborne wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:32 amBeeblebrox wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:06 amI'm curious as to how me saying someone did a shitty [half-assed] job [in too big of a hurry] at their work constitutes an apology.That's how.Beeblebrox wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:56 pmNever attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by just doing a half-assed job when you're in too big of a hurry.
I think it's perfectly obvious that I'm absolutely saying this was poorly done and should not have happened. I'm not apologizing for it or defending it, I'm just not buying Icewhiz's contention that it was done out of deliberate antisemitism.Beeblebrox wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:56 pmWhat I'm seeing in those edits is BH doing a shitty job of reverting socks. It's a known risk when you spend all your time battling socks that sometimes you just revert without even looking at what you're reverting.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by just doing a half-assed job when you're in too big of a hurry.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
Then you need to be more exact, cause it does read like an apology, which is a recurring pattern in your communication. Maybe you don't notice, because you are so used to it.Beeblebrox wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:05 amNo, it really, really isn't. ... I'm not apologizing for it or defending it, I'm just not buying Icewhiz's contention that it was done out of deliberate antisemitism.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
Alternatively, you could not make up novel interpretations of perfectly clear statements to support your own preconceived notions, just a thought.Osborne wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:18 amThen you need to be more exact, cause it does read like an apology, which is a recurring pattern in your communication. Maybe you don't notice, because you are so used to it.Beeblebrox wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:05 amNo, it really, really isn't. ... I'm not apologizing for it or defending it, I'm just not buying Icewhiz's contention that it was done out of deliberate antisemitism.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
The message behind the argument, apparently, is that administrative competence is not required, but anti-antisemitism is required.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
The facts are rather simple -
1. Berean Hunter incompetently uses mass rollback in a habitual fashion - restoring outright vandalism and BLP issues. The Yaniv mass-rollback is a good example of this - since 90% of the edits rolled back were Yaniv socks reverting vandal IPs - exactly the situation where mass rollback shouldn't have been used.
2. This week, Berean Hunter restored some serious antisemitic shit in his incompetent use of mass rollback.
3. Berean Hunter is an admin and CU.
Is Berean Hunter anti-semitic? No idea. I do know (from his user boxes) he's from North Carolina and a civil war buff - but really - no idea about the bloke beyond his user page.
However, it is clear that Wikipedia tolerates a CU's habitual incompetent use of mass-rollback, and that introducing antisemitic content is tolerated as well - and he's still a CU and admin.
1. Berean Hunter incompetently uses mass rollback in a habitual fashion - restoring outright vandalism and BLP issues. The Yaniv mass-rollback is a good example of this - since 90% of the edits rolled back were Yaniv socks reverting vandal IPs - exactly the situation where mass rollback shouldn't have been used.
2. This week, Berean Hunter restored some serious antisemitic shit in his incompetent use of mass rollback.
3. Berean Hunter is an admin and CU.
Is Berean Hunter anti-semitic? No idea. I do know (from his user boxes) he's from North Carolina and a civil war buff - but really - no idea about the bloke beyond his user page.
However, it is clear that Wikipedia tolerates a CU's habitual incompetent use of mass-rollback, and that introducing antisemitic content is tolerated as well - and he's still a CU and admin.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
If there's an issue, isn't the correct method to sort it out now just email T&S?
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
Administrative competence is too much to hope for, as regulars at this board such as Ming will know only too well.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
Don't confuse "cloudy" with "perfectly clear". As I said, you might be too used to it to be able to tell the difference, so maybe take the advice and reflect on yourself for a moment instead of projecting. It would be to your benefit.Beeblebrox wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:09 amAlternatively, you could not make up novel interpretations of perfectly clear statements
T&S only cares if you report a blatant pedo / legal issue, or you have a good connection to them. Most other issues reported to them go to the trash bin.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
Well quite, but conveniently leaving out that Acre was annexed by Israel in 1948 when it was already planned to be part of the future Arab state. It was then ethnically cleansed of Arabs and re-populated over the following years with Jews from elsewhere.Icewhiz wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:40 pm3. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =928823762 - describing Israel as Palestine (Acre, part of Israel since 1948).
It is however not usually considered part of the occupied palestinian territories. Mainly because by the time Israel got round to extending its ethnic cleansing and land grabs into the west bank etc, there were not enough Arabs left with a connection to Acre to protest about it.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
Israel was formed in the area allocated to it by the UN. Had the Arabs accepted the UN decision and not invaded Israel, it would still have those borders. But Acre has not been "ethnically cleansed" (unlike many Arab countries, which expelled nearly a million Jews in 1948); there are plenty of Arabs living there.Anroth wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:16 pmWell quite, but conveniently leaving out that Acre was annexed by Israel in 1948 when it was already planned to be part of the future Arab state. It was then ethnically cleansed of Arabs and re-populated over the following years with Jews from elsewhere.Icewhiz wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:40 pm3. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =928823762 - describing Israel as Palestine (Acre, part of Israel since 1948).
It is however not usually considered part of the occupied palestinian territories. Mainly because by the time Israel got round to extending its ethnic cleansing and land grabs into the west bank etc, there were not enough Arabs left with a connection to Acre to protest about it.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
The American Left, though, is largely anti-Israel, and the line between that and antisemitism is at best blurry. I was suckered into this myself and spent much the early Wiki days battling against Jayjg, Zeq, others, dealing with that whole stupid Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/CAMERA lobbying (T-H-L) debacle, and so on.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
Israel displaced something like 3 quarters of the Arab population. There are still plenty of Jews in Germany, would you argue they were not ethnically cleansed there because some remain?Poetlister wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:25 pmIsrael was formed in the area allocated to it by the UN. Had the Arabs accepted the UN decision and not invaded Israel, it would still have those borders. But Acre has not been "ethnically cleansed" (unlike many Arab countries, which expelled nearly a million Jews in 1948); there are plenty of Arabs living there.Anroth wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:16 pmWell quite, but conveniently leaving out that Acre was annexed by Israel in 1948 when it was already planned to be part of the future Arab state. It was then ethnically cleansed of Arabs and re-populated over the following years with Jews from elsewhere.Icewhiz wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:40 pm3. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =928823762 - describing Israel as Palestine (Acre, part of Israel since 1948).
It is however not usually considered part of the occupied palestinian territories. Mainly because by the time Israel got round to extending its ethnic cleansing and land grabs into the west bank etc, there were not enough Arabs left with a connection to Acre to protest about it.
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
At some point, once BBCode is straightened out on this board, I'd like to make a custom tag that makes links and phrases it's used on have a "nofollow" setting.Midsize Jake wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:10 pmNo results found for "Gilad Atzmon" +token; six results found without quotes, none containing the word "token." (On the plus side though, this thread will soon be The One and Only!)
I hope you'll forgive me, but I've removed your underlining from the (still boldfaced) term, which may have suggested to some readers that there was a web page somewhere backing this up.
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Re: Antisemitism rears its ugly head on Wikipedia
I see this shit on Reddit *constantly* vis a vis Ilhan Omar. “Criticizing the Israeli government is NOT antisemitism.” It sure the hell is when that criticism uses antisemitic tropes.Randy from Boise wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:53 pmHey, the venerable Anti-Israel = Anti-Semitism trope gets a second thread at WPO!
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Re: Berean Hunter range-blocks half of Israel
Generally people don’t join organizations if the orgs mission and vision statements don’t align with their own philosophies. “I had no idea the KKK supports white nationalism” isn’t a statement that anyone is going to buy.Eric Corbett wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:26 pmI accept the idea that organisations can have aims, but not that they can have attitudes or opinions.Poetlister wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:20 pmThere is an organisation called Jewish Voice for Labour (JVL), set up to "prove" that many Jews do not support the idea that there is substantial anti-Semitism in Labour.
Other groups, like Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (T-H-L) is prima facie on forcing Israel to the settlement table, but one only need look at the language of its founders and leadership to recognize they’re as antisemitic as they come.