WMF Trust and Safety - the oxymorons

[Vigilant]

I saw this and felt it needed a response.

Your Trust and Safety Team

Just in case anyone wants to know who "they" happen https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Trust_and_Safety/Team to be ! ] Necromonger...We keep what we kill 13:30, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, we know. And the only one of those who I have interacted with in any meaningdful sense, I would trust absolutely. Guy (Help!) 13:44, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

I have on several occasions interacted with four of them that I know of, and I would entirely agree with the assessment by Guy. Normally, T&S does a very good job, and that includes dealing with some people and situations who you really wouldn't want to. The fact that someone made one bad decision does not make them a bad person. Seraphimblade Talk to me 16:40, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

I'm sure that more wikiliterati will come by and slob on the T&S knob, but the bolded section implies something has changed.

A better use of my time is a quick look at the playas on this team.
Feel free to help me fill in the blanks.

Who we are

The Trust and Safety team consists of two collaborating wings, focusing on community health policy and trust and trust and safety operations and related policy respectively.

First up,

Patrick Earley

Patrick registered as User:The Interior on Christmas Day 2008. With a focus on topics related to his home country of Canada and on bringing access to resource materials to other volunteers through the Wikipedia Library, Patrick began at the Wikimedia Foundation as a Community Liaison (International) in July 2013. He became Senior Community Advocate in February 2015, thereafter Manager of the Support team, and is now the Trust and Safety Policy Manager.

Names to faces:

From his WMF page, his title is "Trust and Safety Policy Manager (Contractor), Trust and Safety" not only somewhat department of redundancy department, but he's another T&S manager being billed by the WMF as a contractor. The EDD is going to get a tip about this corporate tax fraud. WMF is going to have a hard time answering the questions.

He's from British Columbia and sidelines at the Vancouver Public Library.
We can see where he got his excellent bedside manner and a deep abiding hatred of Fram from in his own words.

My work

I am the manager of the Support task force at the Wikimedia Foundation. I started with the WMF as a Liaison for the VisualEditor product team in mid 2013. In April of 2014, I moved to the Community Advocacy, now Trust & Safety. In January 2017, I became the manager of the Policy sub-team.

So this guy was party to Fram's merciless but correct takedowns on VisualEdsel and just happens to turn out to head the team that went after Fram...
And this COI raises no concerns for anybody inside the WMF?

In 2014, Community Advocacy looked nothing like Trust and Safety as you can see from this diff.
You've been a manager, for small degrees of manager, for about two years.
What's the average number of reports you had during that period?
You've got zero previous management experience that I can find.

You change the rules around WMF conduct bans when nobody is looking.
You decide to go after Fram for the first test of your shiny new weapon.
The skies open and it rains burning frogs.

Does that action, in retrospect, seem smart or mature or what an experienced person would do?



Patrick Earley's cornucopia of bad decisions:

* Attending a seminar/roundtable in Berkeley, we see the seeds of the new regime taking root
Toward a Gender-Inclusive Internet: Strategies to Counter Harassment, Revenge Porn, Threats, and Online Abuse

He speaks!

* Enabling Wikicology!
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Request ... Wikicology
Wikicology ARBCOM
New wikicology rename

Olatunde Isaac
Co-founder, Wikimedia UG Nigeria, former member, Individual Engagement Grant Committee, WMF.

This dude was BANNED. He's indeffed on en.wp...

* Heavily involved in a harassment survey which seems to have dubious methodology
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Researc ... urvey_2015
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... Report.pdf
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... w_data.pdf

* Gender diversity Inspire Campaign
https://jakemartcorp.wordpress.com/tag/ ... g/page/72/

having a safe space to learn about Wikipedia was a very important factor to encourage more participation by women in Wikipedia.

* LibraryPedia!?
Librarypedia: The Future of Libraries and Wikipedia
This one seems similar to Gibraltarpedia and ParaSportsPedia and all of the other grifter based projects...

* He seems a man of many parts.

Wikimania 2016 Scholarships - Deadline soon!
A reminder - applications for scholarships for Wikimania 2016 in Esino Lario, Italy, are closing soon! Please get your applications in by January 9th. To apply, visit the page below:

Wikimania 2016 Scholarships
Patrick Earley (WMF) via MediaWiki message delivery (kontak) 01:49, 5 Januarie 2016 (UTC)

Odd thing for a Trust & Safety professional to be involved in.

[Kumioko]

I don't care what Guy or Seraphimblade say about the T&S section, my personal interactions with them have shown the complete opposite. They are utterly incompetent and totally untrustworthy. NO member of the Wikipedia community should trust them.

[mendaliv]

Enabling Wikicology!
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Request ... Wikicology
Wikicology ARBCOM
New wikicology rename

Olatunde Isaac
Co-founder, Wikimedia UG Nigeria, former member, Individual Engagement Grant Committee, WMF.

This dude was BANNED. He's indeffed on en.wp...

Olatunde Isaac was honestly the Nigerian Essjay, or perhaps the Nigerian Laura Hale. The dumbest thing about his ArbCom case was the sudden courtesy blanking of the case pages after the case with no debate or discussion. The second dumbest was the FoF that he had been harassed... based on, as far as I can tell, one person that asked some invasive questions in the case area about his identity, who got summarily blocked by the Committee.

That he was granted a rename, and that he’s still participating on meta is a massive shame. One of the things I’d hoped would happen after his siteban by the Committee was that he’d get kicked off everything and possibly Foundation-banned. We even went to the effort of having a remedy that required the Committee to inform other WMF-affiliated groups that he was banned in enwiki and why.

And of course, he’s still continuing his graft. His meta userpage is clearly designed to portray a WMF insider—the layout is stolen from WMF staff pages (he’s not the only person who does this), his photo shows the WMF logo, the language is designed to deemphasize the fact that much of his past responsibilities are indeed in the past. And... he’s an admin on Yoruba Wikipedia. Chrissakes.

[Poetlister]

I don't care what Guy or Seraphimblade say about the T&S section, my personal interactions with them have shown the complete opposite. They are utterly incompetent and totally untrustworthy. NO member of the Wikipedia community should trust them.

Considering Seraphimblade's proven judgment skills, his endorsement does not exactly inspire confidence. On the contrary, it might lead one to query T&S even more. Is Guy JzG? If so, the same remarks apply.

[mendaliv]

Is Guy JzG? If so, the same remarks apply.

Nah, Guy Macon. Who is not exactly someone who inspires confidence.

[Midsize Jake]

Nah, Guy Macon.

I think he's referring to the "only one of those who I have interacted with in any meaningdful sense, I would trust absolutely" quote in the initial post of this thread, isn't he...? In which case, that's JzG. I doubt Guy Macon has ever interacted with a T&S person in any sense whatsoever.

[DanMurphy]

Fram pinned the tale on Wikicology/Olatunde Isaac in 2016:

Give him some novel type of topic ban? No creation of new articles, no addition of new content, until he has revisited all his articles and either corrected the sources or removed the unsourced or porly sourced information. He has been creating problems for years now, and it is clear that it was ongoing until this ANI discussion started. He should also cease all activities as a public face of Wikipedia, as this really isn't the kind of image we want to have. Fram (talk) 14:34, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

I just looked at this interview, linked in the latest incarnation of his autobiography. In it, he discusses Yoruba tribal marks: "for example, when I wrote an article entitled "Yoruba Tribal marks", I got a sense of accomplishment from knowing that over 5 million people would read it." (which, at some 1,000 pageviews a month, would take some 300 years to achieve; if you really did say that to the interviewer, then again I'ld much prefer that you no longer presented yourself as the face of the Nigerian Wikipedians).

Sure enough, that article has the exact same problems as those discussed above. I checked the "Pele" section. The first source[222] doesn't mention "pele" at all. The second source[223] mentions Pele, but doesn't support anything it supposedly references. Source 8 doesn't support the sentence it references. And so on. The final sentence, about president Obasanjo, is probably a reference to the source from the preceding sentence[224], but that source makes it clear that it was his father that had the marks, not the President. Basically, the whole paragraph should be removed and rewritten from scratch. I note that this article was on DYK as well...

Please, whether it is a complete block or a severe topic ban like I described above, something drastic needs to be done in any case. Way too much damage has been done already, and every article he wrote or significantly contributed to needs a thorough recheck (or being moved to userspace or draft space perhaps). Fram (talk) 14:34, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

[Vigilant]

Do I smell canvassing?

I see three people show up out of the blue and start a new section on a contentious page just when the mood is turning against Trust&Safety and their voluminous falsehoods

curprev 16:41, 30 August 2019‎ Seraphimblade talk contribs‎ 376,499 bytes +477‎ →‎Your Trust and Safety Team: Comment undo
curprev 13:44, 30 August 2019‎ JzG talk contribs‎ 376,022 bytes +220‎ →‎Your Trust and Safety Team: r undo
curprev 13:30, 30 August 2019‎ Wekeepwhatwekill talk contribs‎ 375,802 bytes +399‎ →‎A less desired news source undo

A spontaneous display of support or IRC/email shenanigans?

Someone ought to ask them.

[Poetlister]

Do I smell canvassing?

I see three people show up out of the blue and start a new section on a contentious page just when the mood is turning against Trust&Safety and their voluminous falsehoods

curprev 16:41, 30 August 2019‎ Seraphimblade talk contribs‎ 376,499 bytes +477‎ →‎Your Trust and Safety Team: Comment undo
curprev 13:44, 30 August 2019‎ JzG talk contribs‎ 376,022 bytes +220‎ →‎Your Trust and Safety Team: r undo
curprev 13:30, 30 August 2019‎ Wekeepwhatwekill talk contribs‎ 375,802 bytes +399‎ →‎A less desired news source undo

A spontaneous display of support or IRC/email shenanigans?

Someone ought to ask them.

Yes, highly suspicious. I don't know Wekeepwhatwekill, but judging by the company he's keeping here, I don't know if I want to know him.

[mendaliv]

Nah, Guy Macon.

I think he's referring to the "only one of those who I have interacted with in any meaningdful sense, I would trust absolutely" quote in the initial post of this thread, isn't he...? In which case, that's JzG. I doubt Guy Macon has ever interacted with a T&S person in any sense whatsoever.

Ah, my mistake. I see “Guy” saying something foolish on those pages and I assume Guy Macon.

[Vigilant]

Nah, Guy Macon.

I think he's referring to the "only one of those who I have interacted with in any meaningdful sense, I would trust absolutely" quote in the initial post of this thread, isn't he...? In which case, that's JzG. I doubt Guy Macon has ever interacted with a T&S person in any sense whatsoever.

Ah, my mistake. I see “Guy” saying something foolish on those pages and I assume Guy Macon.

[mendaliv]

Fram pinned the tale on Wikicology/Olatunde Isaac in 2016:

Give him some novel type of topic ban? No creation of new articles, no addition of new content, until he has revisited all his articles and either corrected the sources or removed the unsourced or porly sourced information. He has been creating problems for years now, and it is clear that it was ongoing until this ANI discussion started. He should also cease all activities as a public face of Wikipedia, as this really isn't the kind of image we want to have. Fram (talk) 14:34, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

I just looked at this interview, linked in the latest incarnation of his autobiography. In it, he discusses Yoruba tribal marks: "for example, when I wrote an article entitled "Yoruba Tribal marks", I got a sense of accomplishment from knowing that over 5 million people would read it." (which, at some 1,000 pageviews a month, would take some 300 years to achieve; if you really did say that to the interviewer, then again I'ld much prefer that you no longer presented yourself as the face of the Nigerian Wikipedians).

Sure enough, that article has the exact same problems as those discussed above. I checked the "Pele" section. The first source[222] doesn't mention "pele" at all. The second source[223] mentions Pele, but doesn't support anything it supposedly references. Source 8 doesn't support the sentence it references. And so on. The final sentence, about president Obasanjo, is probably a reference to the source from the preceding sentence[224], but that source makes it clear that it was his father that had the marks, not the President. Basically, the whole paragraph should be removed and rewritten from scratch. I note that this article was on DYK as well...

Please, whether it is a complete block or a severe topic ban like I described above, something drastic needs to be done in any case. Way too much damage has been done already, and every article he wrote or significantly contributed to needs a thorough recheck (or being moved to userspace or draft space perhaps). Fram (talk) 14:34, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

What I think made a ban all but certain at the time was this bit of evidence:

Note this edit and the statement made in the article (only edited by Wikicology up until that point) that "The National Demographic Health Survey (NDHS) report in 2008 suggested that over 25% of adolescent in Nigeria often experience the first sexual abuse at the age of 15".

None of the sources you see in that diff contains such a statement.

1. The source Wikicology deleted in that edit is a summary of key findings from the 2008 Nigeria Demographic and Health Survey ("NDHS"). It says: "One in five women were sexually active by age 15" (p. 4) and "Seven percent of women age 15–49 have ever experienced sexual violence" (p. 13). Both of these statements are at odds with what Wikicology wrote in the article.
2. The first source Wikicology added has nothing to do with Nigeria. It is a National Demographic and Health Survey overview page for the Philippines. Its presence here is completely mystifying. The only explanation that comes to mind is that the Philippine Statistics Authority uses the same acronym, "NDHS", for its "National Demographic and Health Surveys".
3. The second source Wikicology added is a download page for the complete 2008 Nigeria Demographic and Health Survey.

For further comments see the sourcing discussion at Talk:Child_sexual_abuse_in_Nigeria (T-H-L). Note that, as described there, the unsourced sentence Wikicology wrote found its way into an article published in the British Journal of Education – which Wikicology then proposed citing as a source for his statement. If it hadn't been for SlimVirgin (T-C-L)'s vigilance, that is exactly what would have happened. This kind of WP:CIRCULAR (T-H-L) reference loop is a prime example of how Wikipedia, in concert with lazy or rushed authors and inattentive peer review/fact checking, can destroy knowledge.

I am still astounded by this.

[Beeblebrox]

Looks like BU Rob13 created a blank user page for T Cells on en. so it wouldn't transclude his bullshit meta user page.

[Vigilant]

I'm going to do one of these Trust and Safety turds here in this thread each day.


It's pretty satisfying to see that Pearly (dear god, what an aptronym) was the facilitator of one of the most toxic editors prior to grace the halls of en.wp.

Prior to supporting Laura Hale on her quest to slay Fram, that it.

[Vigilant]

Welcome to the party, folks.
One flamethrower each, line on the left.

Here are how long each member has had a WMF account and how many edits to all projects they have made in that time from their official account. At least some of them have another username that they use for non-WMF business, so this only measures official interaction with the community, not total edits. Also you can't expect someone who has been on the job a few months to have as many official edits as someone who have been here many years.

CSteigenberger (WMF) -- 2 years, 226 edits.[60]
JEissfeldt (WMF) -- 6 years, 1,184 edits.[61]
JSutherland (WMF) -- 5 years, 16,279 edits.[62]
Kalliope (WMF) -- 4 years, 3,871 edits.[63]
Kbrown (WMF) -- 3 years, 6,313 edits.[64]
NNair (WMF) -- 2 months, 18 edits.[65]
PEarley (WMF) -- 6 years, 4,428 edits.[66]
SPoore (WMF) -- 2 years, 1,275 edits.[67]
Samuel (WMF) -- 2 years ago, 7,786 edits.[68]
THargrove (WMF) -- 13 months, 5 edits.[69]

Does anyone want to take the time to figure out
Total edits using all accounts, or
Official edits that are signed (which would indicate being part of a conversation on a talk page or noticeboard as opposed to editing articles or info pages on meta), or
Whether they respond to questions on their own talk pages?
--Guy Macon (talk) 20:28, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

I think most of them have real accounts, not just this role accounts. I know the CSteigenberger has: [70][71]. So don't compare apples and oranges. On the other hand, the head of T&S has proven his enmity towards the community with his participation in the war of some putschists in SF against the community in the superputsch-scandal, where he acted with might and brutal force against deWP and enWP. I really don't see, why User:_JEissfeldt (WMF) is still alive and kicking within the WMF, as he has proven his complete unsuitability, complete untrustworthyness, complete lack of providing safety for the community with his participation in that war against the community by some wackos at the WMF. Grüße vom Sänger ♫ (talk) 21:00, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

Stay tuned to this channel for regular, involuntary proctological exams for the members of the Trust & Safety Team.

[rhindle]

Maybe this group can be referred to as Doubt and Danger.

[eagle]

A much needed reform would be to establish a formal procedure for members of the T&S team to recuse themselves when they have conflicts of interest and an external committee to audit the Office Action process.

Such reforms would restore credibility to T&S which is sorely lacking in the wake of the Hale-Fram matter.

[Kumioko]

Welcome to the party, folks.
One flamethrower each, line on the left.

Here are how long each member has had a WMF account and how many edits to all projects they have made in that time from their official account. At least some of them have another username that they use for non-WMF business, so this only measures official interaction with the community, not total edits. Also you can't expect someone who has been on the job a few months to have as many official edits as someone who have been here many years.

CSteigenberger (WMF) -- 2 years, 226 edits.[60]
JEissfeldt (WMF) -- 6 years, 1,184 edits.[61]
JSutherland (WMF) -- 5 years, 16,279 edits.[62]
Kalliope (WMF) -- 4 years, 3,871 edits.[63]
Kbrown (WMF) -- 3 years, 6,313 edits.[64]
NNair (WMF) -- 2 months, 18 edits.[65]
PEarley (WMF) -- 6 years, 4,428 edits.[66]
SPoore (WMF) -- 2 years, 1,275 edits.[67]
Samuel (WMF) -- 2 years ago, 7,786 edits.[68]
THargrove (WMF) -- 13 months, 5 edits.[69]

Does anyone want to take the time to figure out
Total edits using all accounts, or
Official edits that are signed (which would indicate being part of a conversation on a talk page or noticeboard as opposed to editing articles or info pages on meta), or
Whether they respond to questions on their own talk pages?
--Guy Macon (talk) 20:28, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

I think most of them have real accounts, not just this role accounts. I know the CSteigenberger has: [70][71]. So don't compare apples and oranges. On the other hand, the head of T&S has proven his enmity towards the community with his participation in the war of some putschists in SF against the community in the superputsch-scandal, where he acted with might and brutal force against deWP and enWP. I really don't see, why User:_JEissfeldt (WMF) is still alive and kicking within the WMF, as he has proven his complete unsuitability, complete untrustworthyness, complete lack of providing safety for the community with his participation in that war against the community by some wackos at the WMF. Grüße vom Sänger ♫ (talk) 21:00, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

Stay tuned to this channel for regular, involuntary proctological exams for the members of the Trust & Safety Team.

Several, but not all of these folks have other account they edit from and although it's important to see what edits they are doing to participate with the community, it only paints a partial picture.

CSteigenberger (WMF) -- 2 years, 226 edits.[60] AKA Kritzolina. 5 years. 32,829 edits. (20,313 on DEWP, 10,176 Commons).
JEissfeldt (WMF) -- 6 years, 1,184 edits.[61] Can't tell. says he started in DEWP but not sure what it was.
JSutherland (WMF) -- 5 years, 16,279 edits.[62] AKA Fox, 7 years, 36,227 edits (32,317 on ENWP). Admin and OS.
Kalliope (WMF) -- 4 years, 3,871 edits.[63]
Kbrown (WMF) -- 3 years, 6,313 edits.[64] AKA Fluffernutter, 8 Years, 41,616 edits (41,009 on ENWP). Admin and OTRS member
NNair (WMF) -- 2 months, 18 edits.[65]
PEarley (WMF) -- 6 years, 4,428 edits.[66] AKA The Interior. 8 Years. 24,188 edits (23,007). Admin in ENWP
SPoore (WMF) -- 2 years, 1,275 edits.[67] AKA FloNight. 11 Years. 28,572 edits (19,700 to ENWP). Admin on ENWP and WikiQuote.
Samuel (WMF) -- 2 years ago, 7,786 edits.[68] AKA African Hope. 5 years. 9,500 edits. (5,605 to FrenchWP.) Admin on a couple.
THargrove (WMF) -- 13 months, 5 edits.[69]

Several of these have extremely low edit counts for people with such long histories. Only a couple are from outside the US. Nearly all focus almost exclusively on English Wikipedia. So I can't say from looking at this that this group represents the community. I mean they obviously do not, therefore why would they care what he community thought or how their actions affected the communities. They are there to get paid, it's a job to them and that's all. Additionally, how can you effectively run a team like this with at least a couple of them living externally, in different time zones.

I would also add, the connection that Kbrown (WMF) has to the English Wikipedia arbcom through her husband Courcelles is, to me, inappropriate. There is a very high probability that she could exert influence on his decisions or vice versa.

[Poetlister]

Nah, Guy Macon.

I think he's referring to the "only one of those who I have interacted with in any meaningdful sense, I would trust absolutely" quote in the initial post of this thread, isn't he...? In which case, that's JzG. I doubt Guy Macon has ever interacted with a T&S person in any sense whatsoever.

Ah, my mistake. I see “Guy” saying something foolish on those pages and I assume Guy Macon.

There is no shortage of guys onWikipedia saying foolish things. JzG is very well known among people who have watched Wikipedia for any great length of time.

[10920]

I saw this on the Fram page, posted by Dirk.

[Midsize Jake]

I saw this on the Fram page, posted by Dirk.

They did that for all the candidates' nomination talk pages (here's Yuri Astrakhan's and Shani Evenstein's). It makes sense really, because if they didn't do that then people would just automatically assume the pages in question should be used for death threats, rape threats, doxxing, and jokes about the candidates' private parts, just like the all the other pages on Meta.

[Poetlister]

I saw this on the Fram page, posted by Dirk.

They did that for all the candidates' nomination talk pages (here's Yuri Astrakhan's and Shani Evenstein's). It makes sense really, because if they didn't do that then people would just automatically assume the pages in question should be used for death threats, rape threats, doxxing, and jokes about the candidates' private parts, just like the all the other pages on Meta.

All they need to do is copy WP:CIVIL to Meta. Surely if people know that there is a policy requirement to be civil, they will all behave themselves, just as they do on Wikipedia.

[Giraffe Stapler]

I don't really want to pile on to Ty Hargrove, but her blurb on LinkedIn is pretty mind-blowing.

Highly effective Trust and Safety Operations lead emphasizing strategic and creative initiatives to solve complex problems. Energetic and results-focused with success in developing and leading diverse teams to achieve outstanding results.

I understand why she didn't continue in journalism. Here are some snippets from a piece she wrote for her school paper.

Burgers are a part of America’s pastime, similar to baseball.

My personal favorite is the bacon cheeseburger and the array of toppings that I can choose from to cater to my ever-changing pallet of taste buds.

My favorite part about going to Five Guys is the actual waiting process, in which I help myself to a handful of peanuts that contribute to a series of unforgettable conversations and a few games of finger football.

[Randy from Boise]

I don't really want to pile on to Ty Hargrove, but her blurb on LinkedIn is pretty mind-blowing.

Highly effective Trust and Safety Operations lead emphasizing strategic and creative initiatives to solve complex problems. Energetic and results-focused with success in developing and leading diverse teams to achieve outstanding results.

I understand why she didn't continue in journalism. Here are some snippets from a piece she wrote for her school paper.

Burgers are a part of America’s pastime, similar to baseball.

My personal favorite is the bacon cheeseburger and the array of toppings that I can choose from to cater to my ever-changing pallet of taste buds.

My favorite part about going to Five Guys is the actual waiting process, in which I help myself to a handful of peanuts that contribute to a series of unforgettable conversations and a few games of finger football.

What is her native language? Did she teach herself English? Pretty impressive if she is from Albania and learned reading the back of cereal boxes...

RfB

[Jeff Hawke]

What is her native language? Did she teach herself English? Pretty impressive if she is from Albania and learned reading the back of cereal boxes...

RfB

I'm rather more inclined to ask whether she is any good at her job. Do you have any evidence about that?

[Poetlister]

What is her native language? Did she teach herself English? Pretty impressive if she is from Albania and learned reading the back of cereal boxes...

RfB

I'm rather more inclined to ask whether she is any good at her job. Do you have any evidence about that?

How old was she when she wrote that stuff for her school paper? Was it meant to be serious?

[Randy from Boise]

What is her native language? Did she teach herself English? Pretty impressive if she is from Albania and learned reading the back of cereal boxes...

RfB

I'm rather more inclined to ask whether she is any good at her job. Do you have any evidence about that?

How old was she when she wrote that stuff for her school paper? Was it meant to be serious?

Sarcasm, stilted befuddlement, and good questions — respectively.

RfB

[Giraffe Stapler]

I'm rather more inclined to ask whether she is any good at her job. Do you have any evidence about that?

The sources I found were all in New Zealand English, so I could not read them.

[eagle]

Seiously, with both the Framban as well as the 2030 Strategy recommendations, there is a fundamental problem of what rules apply when very few people are editing in an area. Suppose that you and I are the only two people editing WP to create BLPs of Spanish Paraolympic athletes. Am I wikihounding you because every time you create a new bio, I copyedit it? We need to encourage scrutiny of low traffic areas, not put the fear of T&S into our volunteers. This will be more of a problem if we try to attain knowledge equity -- are the advocates of knowedge equity seeking to increase the scope of WPs quality control systems or just hope to evade all peer scrunity?

[Poetlister]

Seiously, with both the Framban as well as the 2030 Strategy recommendations, there is a fundamental problem of what rules apply when very few people are editing in an area. Suppose that you and I are the only two people editing WP to create BLPs of Spanish Paraolympic athletes. Am I wikihounding you because every time you create a new bio, I copyedit it? We need to encourage scrutiny of low traffic areas, not put the fear of T&S into our volunteers. This will be more of a problem if we try to attain knowledge equity -- are the advocates of knowedge equity seeking to increase the scope of WPs quality control systems or just hope to evade all peer scrunity?

This sort of thing wrecks what is meant to be the whole point of Wikipedia - writing articles should be collaborative, so one person corrects and improves what the other does. For example, I might correct Paraolympic to Paralympic. That benefits the users of Wikipedia, who at the end of the day are the people who should matter. If I am frightened to correct you because you will run to T&S and complain, your errors will remain.

[Jeff Hawke]

Sarcasm, stilted befuddlement, and good questions — respectively.

Stilted -- having been locked up in a box for Easter
Befuddlement -- a long plastic pole you hang out of a window at an angle to keep the birds away

Really?

[Kumioko]

Seiously, with both the Framban as well as the 2030 Strategy recommendations, there is a fundamental problem of what rules apply when very few people are editing in an area. Suppose that you and I are the only two people editing WP to create BLPs of Spanish Paraolympic athletes. Am I wikihounding you because every time you create a new bio, I copyedit it? We need to encourage scrutiny of low traffic areas, not put the fear of T&S into our volunteers. This will be more of a problem if we try to attain knowledge equity -- are the advocates of knowedge equity seeking to increase the scope of WPs quality control systems or just hope to evade all peer scrunity?

This sort of thing wrecks what is meant to be the whole point of Wikipedia - writing articles should be collaborative, so one person corrects and improves what the other does. For example, I might correct Paraolympic to Paralympic. That benefits the users of Wikipedia, who at the end of the day are the people who should matter. If I am frightened to correct you because you will run to T&S and complain, your errors will remain.

I thought this was a very good example that was given by Eagle because there are a lot of areas of WP just like that. Hell, there are entire wiki's for certain languages with less than half a dozen regular participants. This sort of scrutiny could turn entire language wiki's into ghost towns.

[Poetlister]

Seiously, with both the Framban as well as the 2030 Strategy recommendations, there is a fundamental problem of what rules apply when very few people are editing in an area. Suppose that you and I are the only two people editing WP to create BLPs of Spanish Paraolympic athletes. Am I wikihounding you because every time you create a new bio, I copyedit it? We need to encourage scrutiny of low traffic areas, not put the fear of T&S into our volunteers. This will be more of a problem if we try to attain knowledge equity -- are the advocates of knowedge equity seeking to increase the scope of WPs quality control systems or just hope to evade all peer scrunity?

This sort of thing wrecks what is meant to be the whole point of Wikipedia - writing articles should be collaborative, so one person corrects and improves what the other does. For example, I might correct Paraolympic to Paralympic. That benefits the users of Wikipedia, who at the end of the day are the people who should matter. If I am frightened to correct you because you will run to T&S and complain, your errors will remain.

I thought this was a very good example that was given by Eagle because there are a lot of areas of WP just like that. Hell, there are entire wiki's for certain languages with less than half a dozen regular participants. This sort of scrutiny could turn entire language wiki's into ghost towns.

T&S will of course only take action if it comes to their attention. It must be very rare for events in the dustier corners of Wikipedia to get such a light shone on them, and it is of course only happening in this case because of LH and her connections. As for wikis with only a handful of regular participants, they are by definition in quite obscure languages. Who in T&S could possibly decipher what is going on, even in the unlikely event that they had wind of anything?

[tarantino]

I thought this was a very good example that was given by Eagle because there are a lot of areas of WP just like that. Hell, there are entire wiki's for certain languages with less than half a dozen regular participants. This sort of scrutiny could turn entire language wiki's into ghost towns.

There's only one person that edits the Nahuatl wiktionary. Who knows what he is doing there.

[Randy from Boise]

I thought this was a very good example that was given by Eagle because there are a lot of areas of WP just like that. Hell, there are entire wiki's for certain languages with less than half a dozen regular participants. This sort of scrutiny could turn entire language wiki's into ghost towns.

There's only one person that edits the Nahuatl wiktionary. Who knows what he is doing there.

Posting dick pics?

RfB

[Jeff Hawke]

This sort of scrutiny could turn entire language wiki's into ghost towns.

Good. Then they can be closed down as obvious failures, thereby setting a precedent for the other projects which have failed.

[Poetlister]

I thought this was a very good example that was given by Eagle because there are a lot of areas of WP just like that. Hell, there are entire wiki's for certain languages with less than half a dozen regular participants. This sort of scrutiny could turn entire language wiki's into ghost towns.

There's only one person that edits the Nahuatl wiktionary. Who knows what he is doing there.

Nobody knows and nobody cares. Certainly, there is nobody to complain to T&S, so he's quite safe.

[eagle]

The same is true for Vikipedia mostly one active editor but they get some IP edits too. Check out their Specialis:Nuper mutata. Can you imagine what a T&S warning notice would read like -- they could just copy-paste from some dispatch sent by Julius Caesar to his front line troops.

[Beeblebrox]

It's ok everyone, the WMF has another long boring survey that will fix all problems.

https://wikimedia.qualtrics.com/jfe/for ... wiki,act5)

[MrErnie]

I can't find them at the moment, but Guy Macon and JzG both have written user space essays detailing exactly which views are not welcome on Wikipedia. I wonder if that is in line with the WMF's vision?