Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Discussions on Wikimedia governance
User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31776
kołdry
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Vigilant » Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:10 pm

Someone's a hypocrite.
I think there is enough public available evidence (diffs cited in this decision) to support a desysop given the high expectations we have of administrator conduct. But it should be not(ed)(sic) there is also a considerable weight of private evidence supporting the same conclusion. – Joe (talk) 07:36, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
Per above. We're not narrowly reviewing T&S' sanction here. We accepted a case looking at Fram's conduct. – Joe (talk) 07:47, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
I sincerely hope that after ARBCOM has turned over, someone brings a secret evidence case against Joe Roe.
Last edited by Vigilant on Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
C&B
Habitué
Posts: 1400
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:16 pm
Location: with cheese.

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by C&B » Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:12 pm

I do see that Ritchie333 (T-C-L) has done the Return From Flounce :D

and now is showing off that he is still an admin to Fram. He will pretend that that is not what he is doing.

But he is.
"Someone requests clarification and before you know it you find yourself in the Star Chamber."

User avatar
Ritchie333
Gregarious
Posts: 537
Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:20 pm
Wikipedia User: Ritchie333
Location: London, broadly construed

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Ritchie333 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:19 pm

C&B wrote:and now is showing off that he is still an admin to Fram. He will pretend that that is not what he is doing.
I deleted it because Fram asked me to. That is not too hard to understand, is it?

User avatar
C&B
Habitué
Posts: 1400
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:16 pm
Location: with cheese.

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by C&B » Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:22 pm

I do see that Ritchie333 (T-C-L) is pretending to be impartial on the matter of Fram. "LOL" is required here much? :D
"Someone requests clarification and before you know it you find yourself in the Star Chamber."

MrErnie
Habitué
Posts: 1172
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:15 am

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by MrErnie » Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:25 pm

Arb had a chance to do the right thing and end this nonsense, but instead in their wisdom see fit to subject the community to another few weeks of drama and division.

This RFA will be nasty.

User avatar
C&B
Habitué
Posts: 1400
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:16 pm
Location: with cheese.

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by C&B » Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:35 pm

Yes, for the ARBS
"Someone requests clarification and before you know it you find yourself in the Star Chamber."

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31776
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Vigilant » Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:40 pm

The Hasten the Day party would like to thank ARBCOM and Trust and Safety, with a special shout out to the Board of Trustees(wink, wink, nudge, nudge), for your generous contributions!

Image
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
chowbok
Contributor
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:14 pm
Wikipedia User: chowbok
Actual Name: Kim Scarborough

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by chowbok » Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:42 pm

Wouldn't it be funny if the numbers for Fram's RFA end up pretty close to Floquenbeam's, and it goes to the Bureaucrats? This could just be The Clusterfuck That Never Ends.

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31776
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Vigilant » Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:44 pm

chowbok wrote:Wouldn't it be funny if the numbers for Fram's RFA end up pretty close to Floquenbeam's, and it goes to the Bureaucrats? This could just be The Clusterfuck That Never Ends.
إن شاء الله
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
C&B
Habitué
Posts: 1400
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:16 pm
Location: with cheese.

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by C&B » Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:49 pm

Fram will Walk it. Everyone who has so has had a problem with either Arbcom, T&S or the WMF Generally will vote for him.

Now. Look at All These Pages recently Generated, and count how many editors was opposing him. That is the degrees of opposition he will face.


The Fuck All.

:D
"Someone requests clarification and before you know it you find yourself in the Star Chamber."

User avatar
C&B
Habitué
Posts: 1400
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:16 pm
Location: with cheese.

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by C&B » Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:10 pm

Ritchie333 wrote:
C&B wrote:and now is showing off that he is still an admin to Fram. He will pretend that that is not what he is doing.
I deleted it because Fram asked me to. That is not too hard to understand, is it?
What Is Hard To Understand is how you take perhaps the redirect needs to be deleted for now to be A Personal Request when absolutely Fram Did Not ask You too. You had none reasons To Interact With Him at all, yet you do. It makes it some easier to see how you can Breach Your Interaction Ban so easily If You Cannot see that so clearly :D
"Someone requests clarification and before you know it you find yourself in the Star Chamber."

User avatar
The Adversary
Habitué
Posts: 2466
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:01 am
Location: Troll country

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by The Adversary » Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:45 pm

Basically, since the first week or two of this affair, when all involved (including the absurdly named "Trust and Safety") confirmed that everything Fram was punished for was online........no emails, not deleted edits, no off-wiki offences......everyone and their grandmothers have been going through Fram's each and every edit............and found nothing matching the punishment.

Another conclusion: all the secrecy involved must have concerned only those who had complained: their feelings, their assessments, their opinions.

But since everyone has access to the same material as the ones who complained, why should the complainants view matter more than the rest of us?

Basically, this case has placed the alleged victims in the place of jury and judge. That is a system I know from the Middle East (If you kill a man, that man's mother might get to decide whether you will hang..... or not.) But it is a concept completely foreign to the Western World.

I have been critical of Fram in the past (I thought (..and still thinks!) that his block of GorillaWarfare was one of the worst blocks I have ever seen.)
Alas, .....now I would feel compelled to vote for Fram's return of the mop :shrug:

(Oh, and fuck you, "Trust and Safety"!)

User avatar
C&B
Habitué
Posts: 1400
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:16 pm
Location: with cheese.

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by C&B » Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:47 pm

I do not understand that Gorilla warfare did not Recuse.
"Someone requests clarification and before you know it you find yourself in the Star Chamber."

User avatar
Moral Hazard
Super Genius
Posts: 3401
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:46 pm
Wikipedia User: Kiefer.Wolfowitz
Nom de plume: Kiefer Wolfowitz
Contact:

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Moral Hazard » Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:08 pm

Vigilant wrote:
Someone's a hypocrite.
I think there is enough public available evidence (diffs cited in this decision) to support a desysop given the high expectations we have of administrator conduct. But it should be not(ed)(sic) there is also a considerable weight of private evidence supporting the same conclusion. – Joe (talk) 07:36, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
Per above. We're not narrowly reviewing T&S' sanction here. We accepted a case looking at Fram's conduct. – Joe (talk) 07:47, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
I sincerely hope that after ARBCOM has turned over, someone brings a secret evidence case against Joe Roe.
Joe Roe (T-C-L) is a name pregnant with associations, as is the account's edits.
This link has timelines of Joe Roe (T-C-L)'s interactions with LauraHale (T-C-L)

I see nothing amiss.
https://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editori ... ver=enwiki
Joe Roe (T-C-L) (talk) edit count: 22132

Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr (T-C-L) (talk) edit count: 57163

LauraHale (T-C-L) (talk) edit count: 0
Numbers in blue indicate which editor first edited the page.

Page Min time between edits Joe Roe (T-C-L)
edits Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr (T-C-L)
edits LauraHale
edits
Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents (T-H-L) 21 minutes — (timeline) 20 7 0
Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Articles for creation (T-H-L) 7 hours — (timeline) 138 3 0
Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women in Red (T-H-L) 17 hours — (timeline) 60 44 0
Belgrade 25 days — (timeline) 2 6 0
User talk:Victuallers (T-H-L) 55 days — (timeline) 2 13 0
User talk:ACP2011 134 days — (timeline) 1 8 0
Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard 243 days — (timeline) 12 5 0
User talk:BusterD 299 days — (timeline) 2 1 0
User talk:Domdeparis 1 years — (timeline) 5 1 0
Wikipedia talk:Did you know (T-H-L) 1 years — (timeline) 20 64 0
Template talk:Did you know (T-C-L) 1 years — (timeline) 14 148 0
Wikipedia:Article alerts/Subscription list 1 years — (timeline) 4 4 0
User talk:Number 57 2 years — (timeline) 1 3 0
User talk:Dr. Blofeld (T-H-L) 3 years — (timeline) 1 20 0
Wikipedia:Teahouse (T-H-L) 3 years — (timeline) 362 4 0
Wikipedia:Usernames for administrator attention 3 years — (timeline) 5 1 0
Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals) (T-H-L) 3 years — (timeline) 34 4 0
Wikipedia talk:Good article nominations 3 years — (timeline) 1 17 0
User talk:Diannaa 3 years — (timeline) 3 1 0
Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard 3 years — (timeline) 43 3 0
User talk:Dharmadhyaksha 4 years — (timeline) 1 1 0
User talk:Doncram 4 years — (timeline) 1 1 0
Modern Orthodox Judaism 4 years — (timeline) 1 1 0
Wikipedia:Village pump (policy) (T-H-L) 4 years — (timeline) 10 5 0
User talk:Allied45 5 years — (timeline) 1 1 0
User talk:F382d56d7a18630cf764a5b576ea1b4810467238 5 years — (timeline) 2 1 0
User talk:Stuartyeates (T-H-L) 5 years — (timeline) 5 5 0
User talk:David Biddulph 5 years — (timeline) 2 1 0
Wikipedia:Requests for page protection (T-H-L) 5 years — (timeline) 2 3 0
Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion 5 years — (timeline) 1 1 0
User talk:Jimbo Wales (T-H-L) 6 years — (timeline) 9 4 0
User talk:Muboshgu (T-H-L) 6 years — (timeline) 1 5
ANI wrote:https://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/timelin ... FIncidents
04:37, 03 May 2019 (diff | hist) Joe Roe (T-C-L) (talk | contribs) . . (702,763 bytes) (+392) . . (/* User:Netoholic (T-C-L) */ re.)
11:35, 02 May 2019 (diff | hist) Joe Roe (talk | contribs) . . (636,804 bytes) (+352) . . (/* User:Netoholic */ Suggest close of IBAN section)
05:11, 02 May 2019 (diff | hist) Joe Roe (talk | contribs) . . (611,074 bytes) (+27) . . (/* User:Netoholic */ +subheading)
14:18, 01 May 2019 (diff | hist) Joe Roe (talk | contribs) . . (578,743 bytes) (+463) . . (/* User:Netoholic (T-C-L) */ comment and propose sanction)
07:59, 02 April 2019 (diff | hist) Joe Roe (talk | contribs) . . (168,455 bytes) (+320) . . (/* Impersonations of admins? */ (ec) comment)
20:59, 26 March 2019 (diff | hist) Joe Roe (talk | contribs) . . (362,715 bytes) (+312) . . (/* Harrassment on and off the site */ Quick note of ArbCom block)
14:39, 14 September 2018 (diff | hist) Joe Roe (talk | contribs) . . (186,751 bytes) (+437) . . (/* Possible compromised account */ note re. talk page habits)
06:15, 10 September 2018 (diff | hist) Joe Roe (talk | contribs) . . (272,385 bytes) (+1,227) . . (/* 1990'sguy */ oppose TBAN; propose 1RR or full protection of the page)
06:00, 03 September 2018 (diff | hist) Joe Roe (talk | contribs) . . (128,600 bytes) (+3,055) . . (/* Christianity and antisemitism Page */ new section)
07:51, 11 August 2018 (diff | hist) Joe Roe (talk | contribs) . . (527,479 bytes) (+230) . . (/* Legal (?) threats at Antifa (United States) */ blocked)
06:59, 31 July 2018 (diff | hist) Joe Roe (talk | contribs) . . (329,012 bytes) (+3,180) . . (/* Undoing bad nominations by User:Shadowowl */ time for a topic ban)
23:32, 17 January 2018 (diff | hist) Joe Roe (talk | contribs) m . . (208,411 bytes) (+5) . . (/* Ongoing trolling by TenPoundHammer */ wording)
23:31, 17 January 2018 (diff | hist) Joe Roe (talk | contribs) . . (208,406 bytes) (+658) . . (/* Ongoing trolling by TenPoundHammer */ reply, not sure you get it...)
08:28, 10 January 2018 (diff | hist) Joe Roe (talk | contribs) . . (109,334 bytes) (+264) . . (/* Mass-templating as belonging to a Science Series */ closing)
14:58, 16 November 2017 (diff | hist) Joe Roe (talk | contribs) . . (226,726 bytes) (+442) . . (/* Excessive, hasty deletion nominations by a new editor */ reply to Reece)
00:11, 15 November 2017 (diff | hist) Joe Roe (talk | contribs) . . (268,853 bytes) (+398) . . (/* Excessive, hasty deletion nominations by a new editor */ fifth!)
23:38, 14 November 2017 (diff | hist) Joe Roe (talk | contribs) . . (266,250 bytes) (+212) . . (/* Excessive, hasty deletion nominations by a new editor */ add)
23:32, 14 November 2017 (diff | hist) Joe Roe (talk | contribs) . . (266,038 bytes) (+2,546) . . (/* Excessive, hasty deletion nominations by a new editor */ new section)
... 3 years ...
20:52, 17 February 2014 (diff | hist) Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr (talk | contribs) . . (346,403 bytes) (+471) . . (/* Disruptive (sort of) editing */)
03:12, 14 July 2012 (diff | hist) Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr (talk | contribs) . . (418,315 bytes) (+549) . . (/* Oakley77 (T-C-L) */)
02:16, 13 July 2012 (diff | hist) Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr (talk | contribs) . . (737,774 bytes) (+311) . . (/* Oakley77 */)
21:17, 11 July 2012 (diff | hist) Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr (talk | contribs) . . (568,914 bytes) (+315) . . (/* Oakley77 (T-C-L)*/)
... 2 days ...
09:11, 09 July 2012 (diff | hist) Joe Roe (T-C-L) (talk | contribs) m . . (379,818 bytes) (+2) . . (/* Oakley77 (T-C-L) */ indent)
08:58, 09 July 2012 (diff | hist) Joe Roe (talk | contribs) . . (379,827 bytes) (+1,453) . . (/* Oakley77 (T-C-L) */ support)
... 21 minutes ...
08:36, 09 July 2012 (diff | hist) Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr (T-C-L) (talk | contribs) . . (375,634 bytes) (+808) . . (/* Oakley77 (T-C-L) */)
07:11, 09 July 2012 (diff | hist) Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr (talk | contribs) . . (373,595 bytes) (+472) . . (/* Oakley77 */)
02:58, 09 July 2012 (diff | hist) Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr (talk | contribs) . . (369,849 bytes) (+258) . . (/* Oakley77 */)
19:21, 07 February 2012 (diff | hist) Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr (talk | contribs) . . (278,435 bytes) (+470) . . (/* User:SandyGeorgia (T-C-L) */)
07:38, 26 October 2011 (diff | hist) Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr (talk | contribs) . . (236,083 bytes) (+1,164) . . (/* Forum Shopping, Disrupting Talk Pages, Failure To Assume Good Faith... */)
22:11, 14 October 2011 (diff | hist) Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr (talk | contribs) . . (245,205 bytes) (+448) . . (/* User:65.242.105.66 (T-C-L) */)
19:45, 14 October 2011 (diff | hist) Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr (talk | contribs) . . (242,126 bytes) (+789) . . (/* User:65.242.105.66 */ new section)
Last edited by Moral Hazard on Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Kiefer.Wolfowitz (T-C-L)
“Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game because they almost always turn out to be—or to be indistinguishable from—self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time.”
Neal Stephenson (T-H-L) Cryptonomicon

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31776
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Vigilant » Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:17 pm

On or about Sep 1 2004
Name: Joey Roe
Full Name: Joseph Adam Roe
Date of Birth: 5th April 1990
Date of Death: ???
Nationality: English
Residence: Batley, West Yorkshire
Education: Attends Woodkirk High School, Tingley, Leeds.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
Jans Hammer
Gregarious
Posts: 835
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:59 am

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Jans Hammer » Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:21 pm

Vigilant wrote:On or about Sep 1 2004
Name: Joey Roe
Full Name: Joseph Adam Roe
Date of Birth: 5th April 1990
Date of Death: ???
Nationality: English
Residence: Batley, West Yorkshire
Education: Attends Woodkirk High School, Tingley, Leeds.
Joe Roe who nobody knows :D

User avatar
TheElusiveClaw
Contributor
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:00 pm

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by TheElusiveClaw » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:06 pm

Looks like more people are at the end of their tethers... Scrocat was blocked for

* Voting for closing, I see. An out-of-process desysop from a toxic over-reach by the WMF; it would have been overturned by any sensible body. Unfortunately, it went to ArbCom. What an utter clusterfuck. You are responsible for enabling the biggest level of toxicity on WP there has ever been and are in breach of [[WP:ADMINACCT]] in doing so. Let's drag this all out further with a divisive RfA and the next couple of Arb elections. Brilliant. Rather than ending the toxic mess, ArbCom, you've prolonged it even further. Genius move - well done. - [[User:SchroCat|SchroCat]] ([[User talk:SchroCat|talk]]) 16:35, 20 September 2019 (UTC) (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =916785903)


User avatar
Earthy Astringent
Banned
Posts: 1548
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:16 am

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Earthy Astringent » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:10 pm

Ritchie333 wrote:Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Fram 2 (T-H-L)
I'm gonna make me some popcorn and get comfy.....
I’d get my sock army ready, but as usual I’m torn as to what direction to go. Drama God says oppose. But “Fuck Arbcom” says support

Writing rationale will be a PITA. Maybe a bunch of “per SoAndSo”?

User avatar
Earthy Astringent
Banned
Posts: 1548
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:16 am

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Earthy Astringent » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:15 pm

Fram blocked GorillaFecesFlinger for a personal attack?!? :lmao: God I wish I had paid more attention to this.

Fram needs to run for Arbcom.

Beeblebrox
Habitué
Posts: 3835
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:30 pm
Wikipedia User: Just Step Sideways
Location: The end of the road, Alaska

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Beeblebrox » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:19 pm

TheElusiveClaw wrote:Looks like more people are at the end of their tethers... Scrocat was blocked for

* Voting for closing, I see. An out-of-process desysop from a toxic over-reach by the WMF; it would have been overturned by any sensible body. Unfortunately, it went to ArbCom. What an utter clusterfuck. You are responsible for enabling the biggest level of toxicity on WP there has ever been and are in breach of [[WP:ADMINACCT]] in doing so. Let's drag this all out further with a divisive RfA and the next couple of Arb elections. Brilliant. Rather than ending the toxic mess, ArbCom, you've prolonged it even further. Genius move - well done. - [[User:SchroCat|SchroCat]] ([[User talk:SchroCat|talk]]) 16:35, 20 September 2019 (UTC) (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =916785903)

Looks more like he was blocked for edit warring with the clerks to keep it there. I have to say, when I was on the committee we sometimes bemoaned how lackluster the clerking was, now it seems to have gone over into extreme heavy handedness, not just in this case but in general.
information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom

User avatar
TheElusiveClaw
Contributor
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:00 pm

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by TheElusiveClaw » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:24 pm

Beeblebrox wrote:
TheElusiveClaw wrote:Looks like more people are at the end of their tethers... Scrocat was blocked for

* Voting for closing, I see. An out-of-process desysop from a toxic over-reach by the WMF; it would have been overturned by any sensible body. Unfortunately, it went to ArbCom. What an utter clusterfuck. You are responsible for enabling the biggest level of toxicity on WP there has ever been and are in breach of [[WP:ADMINACCT]] in doing so. Let's drag this all out further with a divisive RfA and the next couple of Arb elections. Brilliant. Rather than ending the toxic mess, ArbCom, you've prolonged it even further. Genius move - well done. - [[User:SchroCat|SchroCat]] ([[User talk:SchroCat|talk]]) 16:35, 20 September 2019 (UTC) (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =916785903)

Looks more like he was blocked for edit warring with the clerks to keep it there. I have to say, when I was on the committee we sometimes bemoaned how lackluster the clerking was, now it seems to have gone over into extreme heavy handedness, not just in this case but in general.
GoldenRingPiece does seem to be one of those that enjoys being over officious in what he does. He probably should not have removed it in the first place. Kudos to the Cat for not going cap in hand to beg for unblocking

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31776
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Vigilant » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:08 pm

Beeblebrox wrote:
TheElusiveClaw wrote:Looks like more people are at the end of their tethers... Scrocat was blocked for

* Voting for closing, I see. An out-of-process desysop from a toxic over-reach by the WMF; it would have been overturned by any sensible body. Unfortunately, it went to ArbCom. What an utter clusterfuck. You are responsible for enabling the biggest level of toxicity on WP there has ever been and are in breach of [[WP:ADMINACCT]] in doing so. Let's drag this all out further with a divisive RfA and the next couple of Arb elections. Brilliant. Rather than ending the toxic mess, ArbCom, you've prolonged it even further. Genius move - well done. - [[User:SchroCat|SchroCat]] ([[User talk:SchroCat|talk]]) 16:35, 20 September 2019 (UTC) (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =916785903)

Looks more like he was blocked for edit warring with the clerks to keep it there. I have to say, when I was on the committee we sometimes bemoaned how lackluster the clerking was, now it seems to have gone over into extreme heavy handedness, not just in this case but in general.
It's the shiny new black uniforms that have emboldened them.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31776
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Vigilant » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:10 pm

I hope that after the ARBCOM elections, some wag brings each of the former arbs up for desysoping for failing the high standards we expect under WP:ADMINACCT.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31776
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Vigilant » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:14 pm

Delicious!
Comments by Lepricavark

I believe the clerking on this page has gotten a little over-zealous. While some individuals could certainly do a better job of moderating their tone, this is a particularly poor time for strict clerking. Our current climate is heavily charged with resentment towards both real and perceived misuse of power and the removal of criticism that is not egregiously over the line is an action likely to further fan the flames. I respect that the clerks have a difficult job and some of the backlash they are receiving is unfair, but it would be helpful if moderation was carried out a little more, er, moderately. Lepricavark (talk) 19:16, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

Lepricavark, there is a fine line between criticism and insults. Criticism of the committee on case pages is expected, and often even appreciated. Insults are not. I realize this is a subjective decision, and it's impossible to enforce consistently, but in this case it was pretty straightforward. GoldenRing removed a comment that he deemed a personal attack. It was then restored twice by the same person, once more by someone else, and then two other people posted it with their own signature. This is obviously quite disruptive.

The orderly way to appeal clerks' decisions is by email to ArbCom, or to start a discussion somewhere (perhaps the clerks' noticeboard), but not to revert the clerks
. – bradv 19:29, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
This ARBCOM and its clerks!
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
eagle
Eagle
Posts: 1254
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:26 pm

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by eagle » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:00 am

Moral Hazard wrote:
Vigilant wrote:
Someone's a hypocrite.
I think there is enough public available evidence (diffs cited in this decision) to support a desysop given the high expectations we have of administrator conduct. But it should be not(ed)(sic) there is also a considerable weight of private evidence supporting the same conclusion. – Joe (talk) 07:36, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
Per above. We're not narrowly reviewing T&S' sanction here. We accepted a case looking at Fram's conduct. – Joe (talk) 07:47, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
I sincerely hope that after ARBCOM has turned over, someone brings a secret evidence case against Joe Roe.
Joe Roe (T-C-L) is a name pregnant with associations, as is the account's edits.
This link has timelines of Joe Roe (T-C-L)'s interactions with LauraHale (T-C-L)
Untraceable Message to Be Sent to T&S
Dear Ladies and Gentlemen of T&S:
I am sending you this anonymous complaint regarding harassment to which I am subjected by Joe Roe (T-C-L). Recently, I had submitted a harassment complaint against Fram (T-C-L), but my identity was compromised and I suffered great personal embarrassment as a result. So, I am taking precautions so that no-one can trace this electronic message back to me. I am relying up the WMF's formal policies which protect the confidentiality of this complaint and I and my spouse expect the utmost privacy regarding my identity.

Although T&S Office Actions are supposed to be protective rather than punitive, it is important to send a strong message about incivility to the Unblockables on en:WP. This is particularly the case with the WMF's obligation to protect people who identify as LGBTQ+ and who have entered into same-sex marriages. Although it may not be plain from the on-wiki edits, I am certain that Joe Roe's sole reason for being antagonistic toward me is that he believes (and I will not publicly confirm) that I identify as LGBTQ+ and have entered into a same-sex marriage. In addition, people like Joe Roe feel threatened by self-confident, highly trained PhDs who identify as female.

I am not providing diffs, as Joe Roe's conduct is so obvious and notorious as to warrant an immediate investigation by T&S! Currently, I am "on strike", vanished and refuse to edit en:WP any further until meaningful action is taken against Joe Roe. When he is gone, I shall reappear and resume my productive editing.

Again, I want to emphasize that this complaint is my own idea, and that neither my spouse nor any other member of the WMF Board take any position on its merits.

If you have any questions about this complaint, please send an email to: gendergap-l, and I will send an untraceable response.

Carcharoth
Habitué
Posts: 1226
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:44 am
Wikipedia User: Carcharoth

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Carcharoth » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:34 am

Bidgee (T-C-L) makes an appearance with the edit summary "clearing up some allegations":
"As someone who was part of the HoPAu project, I just want to clear up some allegations you have made based off inaccurate assumptions. The vanished user was never employed or paid by the APC, the WiR was only 6 months during 2012, there was no $100/hr position/job. The 2017-2018 Annual Report you have taken out of context, those people named were not paid but are/were volunteers in the project. [...] 00:12, 21 September 2019 (UTC)"

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31776
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Vigilant » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:42 am

Carcharoth wrote:Bidgee (T-C-L) makes an appearance with the edit summary "clearing up some allegations":
"As someone who was part of the HoPAu project, I just want to clear up some allegations you have made based off inaccurate assumptions. The vanished user was never employed or paid by the APC, the WiR was only 6 months during 2012, there was no $100/hr position/job. The 2017-2018 Annual Report you have taken out of context, those people named were not paid but are/were volunteers in the project. [...] 00:12, 21 September 2019 (UTC)"
Image
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
eagle
Eagle
Posts: 1254
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:26 pm

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by eagle » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:48 am

Carcharoth wrote:Bidgee (T-C-L) makes an appearance with the edit summary "clearing up some allegations":
"As someone who was part of the HoPAu project, I just want to clear up some allegations you have made based off inaccurate assumptions. The vanished user was never employed or paid by the APC, the WiR was only 6 months during 2012, there was no $100/hr position/job. The 2017-2018 Annual Report you have taken out of context, those people named were not paid but are/were volunteers in the project. [...] 00:12, 21 September 2019 (UTC)"
Perhaps if there was an on-wiki disclosure and discussion at WP:COIN, we could have a valid perspective on this. Bidgee frequently intervened on LH's behalf, and Bidgee, LH and Hawkeye7 all traveled from Australia to Colorado to "cover" a paralympic ski competition.

Is the relevant test how much LH was paid for her work, or whether the people blocking quality assurance efforts on-wiki were also paid? What difference does it make whether LH was paid by the APC, WMAU and/or the WMF, if it was undisclosed?

We know that Hawkeye7 had his travel paid to the various HoPAu meetups, so he was more than a "volunteer".

User avatar
Randy from Boise
Been Around Forever
Posts: 12234
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:32 am
Wikipedia User: Carrite
Wikipedia Review Member: Timbo
Actual Name: Tim Davenport
Nom de plume: T. Chandler
Location: Boise, Idaho

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:47 am

Earthy Astringent wrote:
Ritchie333 wrote:Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Fram 2 (T-H-L)
I'm gonna make me some popcorn and get comfy.....
I’d get my sock army ready, but as usual I’m torn as to what direction to go. Drama God says oppose. But “Fuck Arbcom” says support

Writing rationale will be a PITA. Maybe a bunch of “per SoAndSo”?
So if you have enough socks, just play both sides. I mean, that is the logical way to proceed, yes?

RfB

User avatar
Osborne
Habitué
Posts: 1259
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:29 pm

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Osborne » Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:54 am

I also had enough of the commenters' pov-pushing and harshness on the PD, but a comment with a sound argument in it is not what I would have removed. "Insults" are not a reason to remove a comment on enwp, anyway (on meta it is). Redact the insults if need be, but leave the good points, like "Let's drag this all out further with a divisive RfA" (context matters).
Note to MrErnie: The "level of toxicity on WP" is constantly high, and already surfaced in wp:fram months before the arbs had anything to do with it.

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31776
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Vigilant » Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:06 am

Someone should ask Bigdee what remuneration he has received for his involvement.
It would also be useful to know how he knows that Laura Hale received no remuneration.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
eagle
Eagle
Posts: 1254
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:26 pm

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by eagle » Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:30 am

Vigilant wrote:Someone should ask Bigdee what remuneration he has received for his involvement.
It would also be useful to know how he knows that Laura Hale received no remuneration.
He has been on the Board of WMAU. Remember (and I admit this sounds completely illogical), the Wikimedians-in-Residence are handled at the chapter level, if at all.

We have a failure designed to happen. WMAU decides to host a graduate student visiting Australia from the United States who has already expressed contempt for English Wikipedia and its volunteer editors. She has (apparently) previously edited under a sign-on that was not associated with her name, but professes to be a "novice" Wikipedia editor. She gets rent-free housing from a WMAU volunteer. She is playing "hard to get" and is stand-offish to suggestions that she become involved in English Wikipedia. Her professor (perhaps Leigh Blackall) suggests that she can bring "credit" to her department if she takes the Netball (T-H-L) up to FA. Bidgee is active in the whole Netball fiasco, although not to the extent Hawkeye7 is. Once LH is actually in Australia and active in WMAU meetups and events, they take her aside and view her as quite a "catch" -- a highly-respected social media expert who is going to lend academic credibility to their hobby. When Blackall lands the APC contract, they want her to have a big role in it, and Sarah encourages her to put the whole relationship under the ill-defined label of "Wikipedian-in-Residence." Although Bidgee did not have full access to what LH was getting from WMF or APC, he did have access to WMAU's contributions. He was also in the middle of the 2012 WMAU coup attempt.

Aside from Netball, which could be considered to have fallen under the umbrella of her school work, LH has only edited out of self-interest (and POV-pushing).

Very recently, Hawkeye7 has come clean as to what he received, and I would hope that Bidgee would make a similar disclosure. Better 8 years late than never.

ArbCom <- joke
Contributor
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:13 am

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by ArbCom <- joke » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:02 am

I am looking forward to the first AN/I threads on individual members of ArbCom. There is all reason to lynch every single one of them for no reason ....

Carcharoth
Habitué
Posts: 1226
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:44 am
Wikipedia User: Carcharoth

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Carcharoth » Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:40 am

There are existing COI declarations on Bidgee's user page (looking back through the history should yield a full history of the on-wiki disclosure). I had thought (for some reason) that Bidgee was female, but it appears not, as the link to his photography site names him in real-life, as does his listing as secretary at the Wikimedia Australia committee. I may have confused him with another editor of a similar name. It may be worth asking others past and present at WMAU (if they are willing to engage about this). Do try to be nice about it! :D

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31776
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Vigilant » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:23 am

Bigdee opens the door to questions around Laura Hale and paid editing.

That's going to leave a mark.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =916880444
@Bidgee: Thank you for dropping by to discuss this. What was your position with HOPAU? I know that there were many people who were volunteers but there is this budget in the Tender with line items such as copy writer which lists 200 hours and a budget of $20,000.00. Division yields $100/hr. The same for each line item. Each line item is also, associated elsewhere in the Tender with people who will fill the position. The document gives a total budget of 1100 hrs and $110,000.00 with a note "some volunteers use a LETS system" (emp. mine) which carries a very strong implication that in some cases the "volunteers" were only being paid in kind. Volunteer does not always mean free labor cf every United States Armed Forces member is a "volunteer". If none of the people who were on that tender intended to get paid then what was the money for? I mean they represented to the client that the money was going to pay for 1100 hrs of work and I see no change orders so... where do you say the money went? Also, in 2013 WMFAU joined with University of Queensland in an additional $240,000.00 Linkage Grant for the History of Australian Paralympics project which was expressly about using Wikipedia to document the history. The grant as, as of yesterday showing as active, with an budget authorization, to date, for a bit over $260,000.00.

I have no idea who the account holder of Bidgee is, it is not on the tender so I have no reason to believe you were paid but, for the same reason I have no reason to believe you know who was and was not receiving money from the Tender or the Australian Research Council Linkage Grant.

I truly would like to understand how these grants were managed so any help you could give would be greatly appreciated. For instance you say I "took the 2017/2018 report out of context yet I did a literal copy/paste. I did acknowledge it was merely indicative because I could not find a potential funding source for 2013 on but the Linkage Grant has that covered. Do you have any insight which could help make sense of this? Jbh Talk 05:14, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
And, like Hawkeye7 before him, Bigdee was never spoken to again by the awesome purplepopple.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
chowbok
Contributor
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:14 pm
Wikipedia User: chowbok
Actual Name: Kim Scarborough

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by chowbok » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:31 am

ArbCom <- joke wrote:I am looking forward to the first AN/I threads on individual members of ArbCom. There is all reason to lynch every single one of them for no reason ....
I'd make an exception for GorillaWarfare. I get the sense she's not too popular around here but it seems to me she did the right thing in this case (unambiguously voting to not take away admin status from Fram).

MrErnie
Habitué
Posts: 1172
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:15 am

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by MrErnie » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:39 am

chowbok wrote:
ArbCom <- joke wrote:I am looking forward to the first AN/I threads on individual members of ArbCom. There is all reason to lynch every single one of them for no reason ....
I'd make an exception for GorillaWarfare. I get the sense she's not too popular around here but it seems to me she did the right thing in this case (unambiguously voting to not take away admin status from Fram).
She actually did some extensive research to justify her position. The Arbs voting to desysop just hid behind the T&S dossier, consisting of complaints from Wikiluminaries such as LouisAlain, Guido den Broeder, LauraHale, and Wikicology.

User avatar
Randy from Boise
Been Around Forever
Posts: 12234
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:32 am
Wikipedia User: Carrite
Wikipedia Review Member: Timbo
Actual Name: Tim Davenport
Nom de plume: T. Chandler
Location: Boise, Idaho

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:41 pm

Yes, Fram is a prick that should not have tools.

linkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... al_attacks[/link]

RfB
Last edited by Randy from Boise on Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
C&B
Habitué
Posts: 1400
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:16 pm
Location: with cheese.

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by C&B » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:51 pm

Unlucky; he's going to walk his RfA :D
"Someone requests clarification and before you know it you find yourself in the Star Chamber."

User avatar
lonza leggiera
Gregarious
Posts: 572
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:24 am
Wikipedia User: David J Wilson (no longer active); Freda Nurk
Wikipedia Review Member: lonza leggiera
Actual Name: David Wilson

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by lonza leggiera » Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:19 pm

Vigilant wrote:Bigdee opens the door to questions around Laura Hale and paid editing.

That's going to leave a mark.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =916880444
@Bidgee: Thank you for dropping by to discuss this. What was your position with HOPAU? I know that there were many people who were volunteers but there is this budget in the Tender with line items such as copy writer which lists 200 hours and a budget of $20,000.00. Division yields $100/hr. The same for each line item. Each line item is also, associated elsewhere in the Tender with people who will fill the position. The document gives a total budget of 1100 hrs and $110,000.00 with a note "some volunteers use a LETS system" (emp. mine) which carries a very strong implication that in some cases the "volunteers" were only being paid in kind. Volunteer does not always mean free labor cf every United States Armed Forces member is a "volunteer". If none of the people who were on that tender intended to get paid then what was the money for? I mean they represented to the client that the money was going to pay for 1100 hrs of work and I see no change orders so... where do you say the money went?
The tender in question looks very much to me like it was an unsuccessful one for the contract that the APC eventually let to the University of Queensland's Murray Phillips, as I pointed out here. Thus, the sums of money mentioned in that tender document never went anywhere, because they consisted entirely of vapourcoin which never actually materialised.
Also, in 2013 WMFAU joined with University of Queensland in an additional $240,000.00 Linkage Grant for the History of Australian Paralympics project which was expressly about using Wikipedia to document the history. The grant as, as of yesterday showing as active, with an budget authorization, to date, for a bit over $260,000.00.

I have no idea who the account holder of Bidgee is, it is not on the tender so I have no reason to believe you were paid but, for the same reason I have no reason to believe you know who was and was not receiving money from the Tender or the Australian Research Council Linkage Grant. …
I believe the only people likely to have spent the money granted to the University of Queensland under the ARC linkage grant would have been the two chief investigators, Murray Phillips and. Frederick Osmond. The funding rules governing the grant (item 6.3.2) required the partner organisations, Wikimedia Australia and the APC, to make their own cash or in-kind contributions to the project which (in combination) at least matched the funding granted to the University Queensland by the ARC.

I also believe the statement that the project "was expressly about using Wikipedia to document the history" to be grossly inaccurate. It appears to me that the Wikipedia activities comprised just one of the many strands making up what seems to have been a multifaceted project. To put those activities in proper perspective, I think it's worth going back through the APC annual reports to see what they have to say about the project. The first mention of it appears to have been in the 2008-2009 annual report:
APC 2008-2009 annual report, p.16, wrote:The APC is evaluating a project to record the history of the Paralympic movement in Australia. This is a much-needed area of Australian sport research. As part of the process, the APC collaborated with the National Library of Australia to record the first Paralympian to be part of its Australian Oral History Project – Australia’s first Indigenous Paralympian, Kevin Coombes. With the National Library and others, the APC is exploring the best way to build on this start and preserve Australia’s Paralympic history.
In the annual report for the next year, we find the following:
APC 2009-2010 annual report, p.34, wrote:During the year, the APC formalised relationships with the National Library of Australia (NLA) and the National Sports Information Centre (NSIC), through the Australian Centre for Paralympic Studies, to collect, preserve and manage important elements of Australia’s Paralympic legacy.

The NSIC – Australia’s leading sports information repository – has undertaken the storage and management of the APC’s audio-visual collection. The collection currently comprises 1,072 video items in various formats, 2,333 slide images and 5,430 photographs. It will grow significantly when the APC’s electronic holdings of photographs are transferred. Under the agreement with the NLA, the oral histories of 23 people who have made a significant contribution to the Paralympic movement in Australia will be recorded by the end of June 2011, through the NLA’s oral history project. In the initial phase of the project, priority has been given to recording the oral histories of Australia’s surviving Paralympians from the first Paralympic Games in Rome in 1960.
Thus, in the early stages of the project, it appears to have had nothing whatever to do with Wikipedia. The two main activities were an oral history project, in collaboration with the National Library of Australia, and the storage and management by the NSIC of the APC's collection of audio-visual material. The digitisation of this audio-visual material would eventually come to be included in this latter aspect of the project (see the material from the 2012-2013 annual report below).

The [url=ahttps://www.paralympic.org.au/wp-content/upload ... Report.pdf]annual report for 2010-2011[/url] is the first to contain any mention of Wikipedia in connection with the project:
APC 2010-2011 annual report, p.34, wrote:As part of the APC history project in 2010/11:

• The National Library of Australia recorded 23 oral history interviews through its oral history project under a formal agreement with the APC.

• The APC recorded video interviews with some of the subjects of the oral history interviews, to complement the oral histories.

• The National Sports Information Centre made further progress in cataloguing the APC audiovisual collection and making it discoverable through the Clearinghouse for Sport under an agreement between the APC and the Australian Sports Commission.

• The first reunion of an Australian Paralympic Team – for the 1960 Team – was conducted to mark the 50th anniversary of the first Paralympic Games.

• The APC’s archive was reorganised and an initial assessment of almost 500 boxes of material stored in the archive was conducted. A process was established to evaluate and manage the collection of key documents in conjunction with the National Library of Australia.

• A tender brief for the written history of the Paralympic movement in Australia was written and the tender process conducted. The APC appointed the University of Queensland and sports historian Murray Phillips to write the history of the Paralympic movement in Australia using a unique process which will draw on resources such as Wikipedia to produce an online book which can meet the APC’s needs for hardcopy and multimedia versions. The University of Canberra and Wikimedia Australia are involved in the online information gathering elements of the project. This written history will draw together many of the other elements of the overall history project and make them accessible to a wide audience.

• The APC identified images which no longer have a commercial value and commenced making these available online through Wikimedia Commons, to meet an identified lack of quality Paralympic sport images online.

• The structure of the Australian Paralympic Hall of Fame was approved by the Board and the process conducted for the nomination and selection of the inaugural inductees – male athlete, female athlete and associate member. The three inaugural inductions will be made in association with the APC’s One Year to Go activities on 29 August 2011. There will be no physical Hall of Fame for the time being.

• Relationships were established with the National Film and Sound Archives, the National Sports Museum, the Powerhouse Museum and other organisations not yet directly involved in the project, to ensure that the project can successfully manage donations and loans of a range of materials, as these increase rapidly. One of the governing principles of the history project is to utilise the expertise of specialist individuals and organisations.
Note, however, that among the nine items listed as activities taking place under the project, the only two mentions of any Wikimedia project are of Wikipedia as one example of the type of resources which it was proposed to draw upon in the production of an online book, and Wikimedia Commons as an outlet for publication of images belonging to the APC which it judged to be of no further commercial value. The above outline of the project, as it stood in 2010-2011 makes an isolated statement that it "was expressly about using Wikipedia to document the history" seem to me to be little more than codswallop.

From the 2011-2012 annual report:
APC 2011-2012 annual report, p.53, wrote:The Australian Paralympic history project is a major project of the Australian Centre for Paralympic Studies to capture, manage and preserve the history of the Paralympic movement in Australia in a way which is relevant to the APC’s activities and its present and future needs. During the reporting period:

• Work commenced on the written history of the Paralympic movement by sports historian Murray Phillips, under an agreement between the University of Queensland and the APC.

• The APC partnered with Wikimedia Australia, with the support of the University of Queensland and the University of Canberra, to ensure that the coverage of the Australian Paralympic movement in Wikipedia reflected the history, role and scope of the movement. Project workshops were conducted in Perth, Brisbane and Canberra and approximately 30 volunteer Wikipedia editors have joined the project. More than 700 Wikipedia articles have been created through this project, including an article on every athlete in the 2012 Australian Paralympic Team, every Australian Paralympic medallist and 127 classification articles. In the months leading up to the London Games, these articles were collectively being viewed more than 100,000 times a month. In the month surrounding the 2012 Games, the articles were accessed almost two million times. The APC combined with Wikimedia Australia to send two Wikipedians to the London Games as journalists. The Wikipedians updated Wikipedia articles and wrote more than 70 articles which were published in Wikinews and Google News, and were used by other media sources in Australia and internationally.

• The APC uploaded more than 600 images of Australian Paralympic athletes onto Wikimedia Commons. These images have been widely used in articles about Paralympic sport in Wikipedia and in other media. A further 250 images have been contributed by volunteer photographers through the Wikipedia project.

• A further seven oral history interviews were recorded for the Paralympic Oral History Project by the National Library of Australia through its oral history project under a formal agreement with the APC, bringing the total number of interviews recorded to 30.

• The APC audiovisual collection of more than 1,100 items was catalogued by the National Sports Information Centre under an agreement between the APC and the Australian Sports Commission.

• The second reunion of an Australian Paralympic Team – for the 1964 Team – was conducted in conjunction with the One Year to Go celebration for the London Paralympic Games.

• The APC accepted a number of donations of historic memorabilia, including gold, silver and bronze medals won at the 1960 Games by Australia’s first female Paralympian, Daphne Hilton, and the bow and arrows used by Ross Sutton when he won Australia’s first ever Paralympic gold medal in 1960, as well as the medal itself.

• The APC made the inaugural inductions into the Australian Paralympic Hall of Fame at the APC’s One Year to Go celebration on 29 August 2011, inducting Frank Ponta (inaugural male), Louise Sauvage (inaugural female) and George Bedbrook (associate). The APC has received more than 30 nominations for the second inductions, to be held in early 2013.

• Posters were created through the University of Canberra about Australia’s history in each of the sports it contested at the London Games, and displayed in common areas and the athletes’ accommodation in the Paralympic Village. The history project relies on volunteers and has benefitted greatly from the weekly input of Patricia Ollerenshaw, who has clocked up more than 10 years as a regular volunteer with the APC.
Here again, there are only two items, that mention Wikimedia projects. The first of these is the earliest evidence I have seen of defective oversight on the part of the APC of any aspect of the project. The fact that it is touting ["m]ore than 700 Wikipedia articles" as a significant achievement of the project, when, by all accounts, a huge proportion of those articles are worthless crap, is not a good look. To put this in perspective however, I see no evidence of the APC's ever paying anyone directly to write any of those articles. I see no evidence that its funding of these activities ever went beyond a contribution towards the expenses of the two Wikimedian "journalists" to attend the London Paralympic Games, and whatever contributions it made, along with the Universities of Canberra and Queensland, to support the project workshops.

From the 2012-2013 annual report:
APC 2012-2013 annual report, p.43, wrote: The APC seeks to partner with other expert organisations which can add value to the APC’s activities in this area through specialist knowledge and resources. In 2012/13 these partnerships included:

The National Sports Information Centre (NSIC)

An agreement with the NCIS at the AIS in Canberra was signed under which the NSIC has digitised, catalogued and stored the APC’s audio-visual collection. In addition, the NSIC serviced requests for material, freeing APC staff from this role. The APC library collection of more than 1,200 items has been catalogued through the NSIC catalogue system and is discoverable by anyone in the world, while the APC continues to control who may view or borrow items from the library. Inclusion on this catalogue enables the APC to participate in wider Paralympic research and supports initiatives through the Centre for Paralympic Studies.

Australian Sports Information Network (AUSPIN)

The APC became the first “non-library” member of the AUSPIN which has been established to improve access to sport-related information.

National Library of Australia (NLA)

The oral history agreement with the NLA was extended until 30 July 2013, with a further 10 interviews scheduled during the extension period, bringing the total in the collection to 40 interviews. The interviews are part of the national oral history collection and are available through the NLA website. The APC will highlight the oral histories through a partnership with the storytelling website http://www.cowbird.com, which will make the stories accessible to a wider audience.

National Sports Museum

Medals from the 1960 Paralympic Games and other significant items donated to the APC have gone on display at the National Sports Museum in Melbourne, under a loan agreement with the APC. This ensures that the items will be protected and managed until the APC is in a position to do so itself.

University of Queensland

Under the APC’s agreement with the University of Queensland, work has continued on the written history of the Paralympic movement in Australia. The University, with the APC and Wikimedia Australia as its industry partners, submitted an application for an Australian Research Council linkage grant to expand this project.

Other Knowledge Services activities in the reporting period included:

• The APC continued its partnership with Wikimedia Australia to create and update Wikipedia articles about the Paralympic movement in Australia, Australian athletes and classification. More than 1,650 images of Australian Paralympic athletes have been uploaded by the APC and volunteer photographers onto Wikimedia Commons for use in articles about Paralympic sport in Wikipedia and in other media.

• Further organisation and cataloguing of the APC’s archives.

• Completion of the report of the London 2012 Paralympic Games – this 450 page document contains more than 200 recommendations and will serve as the blueprint to enable the APC to deliver the Team in Rio.

• Development of a detailed and costed federal policy submission after the London Games and an updated version for use in the in the lead-up to the 2013 Federal election.

• A knowledge audit of APC staff conducted with the assistance of an intern, Moritz Kramer. The audit attempted to identify what kind of knowledge the APC holds, where and how it is stored, how the APC can retain and use the knowledge and where there are gaps that need to be filled.

• The Victorian Institute of Sport was accredited as the second Centre for Paralympic Excellence under the Paralympic Sports Centres accreditation program.

• Provision of advice, statistics and information within and external to the APC.

The Paralympic history project relies on volunteers and continues to benefit from the weekly input of Patricia Ollerenshaw, who has been a regular APC volunteer for almost 13 years.
Later annual reports continue to document activities in all these various strands of the project, but since they appear to be getting more and more verbose, I'll just quote the following item from the 2013-2014 annual report
APC 2013-2014 annual report, p.42, wrote: Work continued on the written history of the Paralympic movement in Australia under the APC’s agreement with the University of Queensland (UQ). UQ was awarded a Linkage Grant of $244,266 from the Australian Research Council to aid the online component of the project and enable a more comprehensive history to be recorded.
Again, there's nothing here to support the contention that even this particular strand of the project "was expressly about using Wikipedia to document the history".

It would appear from snippets of information which dribbled out in subsequent annual reports that two of the major goals of the project under the ARC linkage grant were the publication of a book, and of an online history of the paralympics movement in Australia. The latter was launched on April 13th this year, and is now up and running. According to this page, the book is due to be published later this year.
E voi, piuttosto che le nostre povere gabbane d'istrioni, le nostr' anime considerate. Perchè siam uomini di carne ed ossa, e di quest' orfano mondo, al pari di voi, spiriamo l'aere.

Carcharoth
Habitué
Posts: 1226
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:44 am
Wikipedia User: Carcharoth

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Carcharoth » Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:42 pm

That looks to be a good analysis.

User avatar
Poetlister
Genius
Posts: 25599
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:15 pm
Nom de plume: Poetlister
Location: London, living in a similar way
Contact:

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Poetlister » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:29 pm

eagle wrote:Remember (and I admit this sounds completely illogical), the Wikimedians-in-Residence are handled at the chapter level, if at all.
Indeed, the Wikimedians-in-Residence are one of the main justifications for the charitable status of WMUK. I expect that that is true in Australia as well.
"The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche

User avatar
Poetlister
Genius
Posts: 25599
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:15 pm
Nom de plume: Poetlister
Location: London, living in a similar way
Contact:

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Poetlister » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:33 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:Yes, Fram is a prick that should not have tools.

linkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... al_attacks[/link]

RfB
As has been said before, whether or not that is so, he should be desysopped for what he has done, not for the trumped-up charges presented to T&S.

It's fun to remember that he passed his initial RfA 55/0/0. If it weren't for this case, he'd doubtless have kept the bit indefinitely. Roll on annual re-votes.

Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Fram (T-H-L)
"The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche

User avatar
Randy from Boise
Been Around Forever
Posts: 12234
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:32 am
Wikipedia User: Carrite
Wikipedia Review Member: Timbo
Actual Name: Tim Davenport
Nom de plume: T. Chandler
Location: Boise, Idaho

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:41 pm

Poetlister wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:Yes, Fram is a prick that should not have tools.

linkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... al_attacks[/link]

RfB
As has been said before, whether or not that is so, he should be desysopped for what he has done, not for the trumped-up charges presented to T&S.

It's fun to remember that he passed his initial RfA 55/0/0. If it weren't for this case, he'd doubtless have kept the bit indefinitely. Roll on annual re-votes.

Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Fram (T-H-L)
There might be 10 of those 55 people still around 12 years later... Fram(2) will be a very close result.

RfB

Jbhunley
Critic
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:26 pm
Wikipedia User: Jbhunley

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Jbhunley » Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:23 pm

lonza leggiera wrote: The tender in question looks very much to me like it was an unsuccessful one for the contract that the APC eventually let to the University of Queensland's Murray Phillips, as I pointed out here. Thus, the sums of money mentioned in that tender document never went anywhere, because they consisted entirely of vapourcoin which never actually materialised.

Quote truncated. Please see original comment for context. --Jbh
Thank you for spending the time to write up your analysis. It will take some time for me to integrate the information and issues you present. Your idea that the Tender might not have been successful motivated me to take a closer look at WMAU's reports to the Foundation. While I did not find an audit trail, there is some information which may be relevant to this which can be found in WMAU's 2011 Financial report: linkhttps://wikimedia.org.au/w/images/1/1f/ ... Report.pdf[/link]
page 6 wrote:In the 2010/11 financial year, the chapter ended with a net operating surplus of $192,119.21. This is derived from total revenues of $347,122.48 and total expenses of $155,003.27. Cash reserves on 30 June totaled $204,038.34. ... The vast bulk of revenue came from donations made to the chapter. The vast bulk of these donations were received during the WMF annual fundraising period from 15 November to 15 January
Page 11 wrote:Expenses ... Grants to WMF 127,727.60

In their FY 2010 report linkhttps://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimed ... #Committee[/link] they were not reporting any financial information.

In their FY 2011/2012 P&L Statement linkhttps://wikimedia.org.au/w/images/a/af/ ... 011-12.pdf[/link] they report donations of $2,680.00 which is close to 130 times less than the previous fiscal year. They spent about $60,000 that year where about half was on international travel.

There was a lot of money in play at WMAU from 2011-2013 and 2013 is when the Linkage grant came out with their 2011 president listed as a principle investigator. I am neither an accountant nor have I integrated this into my analytic model. My initial assessment is that this information tends to support the hypothesis that there was a lot of money in play re Paralympic editing.

Again, thank you for your thoughtful analysis.

Edit to add: Right now there is somewhere between $600,000.00 and $710,000.00 depending on if/how the Tender was funded. (~$340K in large and anomalous donations to WMAU plus the ~260K Linkage grant with WMAU listed and their 2010/2011 president listed on the grant report. Depending on whether the $127K grant to WMF included the tender or not and whether it was funded or not there is the potential for another $110K.

--
Jbh
Last edited by Jbhunley on Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When I use a word, Humpty Dumpty said, it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.—The question is, said Alice, whether you can make words mean so many different things—The question is, said Humpty, which is to be master—that's all.

ArbCom <- joke
Contributor
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:13 am

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by ArbCom <- joke » Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:39 pm

chowbok wrote:
ArbCom <- joke wrote:I am looking forward to the first AN/I threads on individual members of ArbCom. There is all reason to lynch every single one of them for no reason ....
I'd make an exception for GorillaWarfare. I get the sense she's not too popular around here but it seems to me she did the right thing in this case (unambiguously voting to not take away admin status from Fram).
There were 3 opposes to close. The desysop that GW opposed was passing. By moving your oppose to close to support, you are rubber stamping what you oppose. With 3 opposes you can only get to 3 net supports, they could have made a point. None did. Bend over and think of Christmas

User avatar
Jans Hammer
Gregarious
Posts: 835
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:59 am

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Jans Hammer » Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:23 pm

and finally, for now, a decision linkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... /Case/Fram[/link]

The Committee decides that Fram's ban was not required, and therefore vacates it.
The behaviour shown in the case materials falls below the standards expected for an administrator. Accordingly, the committee takes over the decision to remove Fram's administrator tools. They may regain the administrative tools at any time via a successful request for adminship.
A Request for Comment will be opened under the Arbitration space, and managed by the Arbitration Clerks. This RfC will focus on how harassment and private complaints should be handled in the future.

User avatar
Midsize Jake
Site Admin
Posts: 9949
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:10 pm
Wikipedia Review Member: Somey

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Midsize Jake » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:49 pm

Jans Hammer wrote:and finally, for now, a decision linkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... /Case/Fram[/link]
Dang, I really wish I'd posted that draft post I wrote up 6 weeks ago predicting this exact outcome... :furious:

So, just as a purely procedural point, should we abandon this thread and start a new one for the now-inevitable "Fram 2" RfA, or keep using this one and try to get it to 100 pages?

User avatar
Jans Hammer
Gregarious
Posts: 835
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:59 am

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Jans Hammer » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:57 pm

:agree: :wrongforum: :agree-to-disagree:

User avatar
Osborne
Habitué
Posts: 1259
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:29 pm

Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Osborne » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:19 pm

ArbCom wrote:The Committee decides that Fram's ban was not required, and therefore vacates it.
:banana: :applause: :headbanger:
Victory for the community.

Post Reply