Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Vigilant » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:09 pm

Given how the WMUK was compromised by the likes of Ashely van Haeftan, Roger Bamkin, etc, and given the near coup attempt on WMAU by Laura Hale, Ross Mallet aka Hawkeye7 and others, and given what I'm seeing at WMES with Maria Sefidari Huici and Laura Hale, I have to wonder how many of the national affiliates AREN'T grifter nests.


https://www.pressreleasepoint.com/wikim ... -hong-kong
The Wikimedia Foundation is happy to welcome its newest member of the Board, María Sefidari, a Computer Science Ph.D candidate at Universidad Rey Juan Carlos in Madrid, Spain. She has been an active Wikimedian since March, 2006 and is a founding member and former Vice President of Wikimedia España, the Wikimedia chapter in the country. She has served as a member of the Affiliations Committee and the Individual Engagement Grants committee. She lives and works in Madrid, Spain.
Jesus.

She isn't a CompSci PhD candidate.
She doesn't have the requisite coursework or degrees to be admitted to that program and certainly didn't in 2013.
Affiliation and Grants committees...

Grifter.
No wonder she and Laura Hale get on so well.
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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Vigilant » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:28 pm

Looks like she's glommed onto another foundation
Maria Dolores Sefidari Huici. Máster en Comunicación Política, Fundación Ortega y Gasset
https://ortegaygasset.edu

I wonder is Laura Hale was a beneficiary of this program run by the Ortega y Gasset Foundation.
https://studentsinspain.com/
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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Vigilant » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:44 pm

Well, well, well,look who fell down the well.

I find this collaboration between Maria Sefidari and Hahc21...
Spanish - Talks are underway with Hahc21, Maria Sefidari, and Wikimedia Mexico about creating a Spanish Wikipedia Library
Hahc21 (T-C-L) is now Razr_Nation (T-C-L)

A previous thread on a notorious copyright violator.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5694&view=next#p120698

In particular, this post

Event he blind pig of Fae finds an acorn now and then.

Still a member of the Grants committee as of 2016

Another look at him
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5691&p=119106#p119106


A giant nest of grifters.
The Rat King.
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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Vigilant » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:04 pm

An early link in Laura Hale's grifting.
Image
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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Poetlister » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:10 pm

Vigilant wrote:Ironic quote given that the WMF is headed off to reinvent the en.wp without informing them. Also, obvious spelling error in an academic paper...
We conclude that mechanisms that fail to acknowledge the ecosystem they are part of cannot succceed.
You should see some of the papers I referee. Spelling mistakes are very frequent, but a decent journal edits them out. Blame the publisher.
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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Osborne » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:08 pm

Vigilant wrote: Found the pdf
It can be downloaded directly without registration.
Vigilant wrote: The kicker
Told ya you would enjoy :evilgrin:

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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by mendaliv » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:41 pm

Poetlister wrote:
Vigilant wrote:Ironic quote given that the WMF is headed off to reinvent the en.wp without informing them. Also, obvious spelling error in an academic paper...
We conclude that mechanisms that fail to acknowledge the ecosystem they are part of cannot succceed.
You should see some of the papers I referee. Spelling mistakes are very frequent, but a decent journal edits them out. Blame the publisher.
You'd shit yourself if you saw what my law journal passed to me as "ready to typeset and publish".
“It is a fair summary of history to say that the safeguards of liberty have frequently been forged in controversies involving not very nice people.” United States v. Rabinowitz, 339 U.S. 56, 68, 69 (1950) (Frankfurter, J. dissenting).

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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Poetlister » Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:51 am

Yes, we're in danger of overlapping the "Death of spelling" thread! :D
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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by eagle » Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:00 pm

Maria wrote:. We conclude that mechanisms that fail to acknowledge the ecosystem they are part of cannot succceed. Therefore, further research is needed to determine if granting more decision-making power to non-administrators may lead to more effective conflict resolution mechanisms.
The whole idea of "trust" is a key to the WP concept. Originally, admin status was give freely to all who were trusted. The idea was that if people did not know you enough to make you an admin, you should not be trusted enough to settle disputes.

I think that separating the dispute resolution function from the policy making function is something that should be pursued. But there should be a way to screen the policy makers for a fundamental degree of trust.

Absent some established, sensible vetting, either cliques and cartels will fill that role, or we degenerate into an "anyone can edit, anyone can grift" mess.

Note the perpetual plea for "further research". Again, who is being paid to research the pressing WP issues of the day?
ACKNOWLEDGMENTS
We thank L. Hale for her technical support to undertake this study.

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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Osborne » Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:17 pm

eagle wrote:I think that separating the dispute resolution function from the policy making function is something that should be pursued.
This idea is basic to all democracies, so yes.
Wait... have somebody said that WP is a democracy? Or want to be? I'm not sure... this all seems to be theoretical.
Does it matter what policies there are, if those "resolving" disputes apply policies as they see it "appropriate"? Read: as it serves their interests.

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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by eagle » Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:24 pm

Osborne wrote:
eagle wrote:I think that separating the dispute resolution function from the policy making function is something that should be pursued.
This idea is basic to all democracies, so yes.
Wait... have somebody said that WP is a democracy? Or want to be? I'm not sure... this all seems to be theoretical.
Does it matter what policies there are, if those "resolving" disputes apply policies as they see it "appropriate"? Read: as it serves their interests.
The Working Groups are considering unbundling the ArbCom and the WMF Board into many different standing groups. However, they are not worried about merit or political accountability or skill sets. Rather they focus upon gender diversity as the primary selection characteristic. There are many problems that the movement needs to address: 1) chasing away new contributors with a bad user interface and unfriendly arcane rules, 2) a lack of clarity on the "paid editing issue", 3) crazy cults and cliques that build "walled gardens" where editors improperly "own" articles or subject areas, 4) societal conflicts (e.g., Republicans vs. Democrats, Israelies vs. Palistinians) flooding over into WP articles, 5) without any peer reviewed articles from Dr. Hale to document it, I still claim that WP is over-run with internal politics. There are many people who work to ban their political adversaries (ignoring the cost to the overall movement and community. This is an online role playing game for them. The Working Groups are not addressing these problems and are proposing new structures that may make these problems even worse.

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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:33 pm

eagle wrote:
Osborne wrote:
eagle wrote:I think that separating the dispute resolution function from the policy making function is something that should be pursued.
This idea is basic to all democracies, so yes.
Wait... have somebody said that WP is a democracy? Or want to be? I'm not sure... this all seems to be theoretical.
Does it matter what policies there are, if those "resolving" disputes apply policies as they see it "appropriate"? Read: as it serves their interests.
The Working Groups are considering unbundling the ArbCom and the WMF Board into many different standing groups. However, they are not worried about merit or political accountability or skill sets. Rather they focus upon gender diversity as the primary selection characteristic. There are many problems that the movement needs to address: 1) chasing away new contributors with a bad user interface and unfriendly arcane rules, 2) a lack of clarity on the "paid editing issue", 3) crazy cults and cliques that build "walled gardens" where editors improperly "own" articles or subject areas, 4) societal conflicts (e.g., Republicans vs. Democrats, Israelies vs. Palistinians) flooding over into WP articles, 5) without any peer reviewed articles from Dr. Hale to document it, I still claim that WP is over-run with internal politics. There are many people who work to ban their political adversaries (ignoring the cost to the overall movement and community. This is an online role playing game for them. The Working Groups are not addressing these problems and are proposing new structures that may make these problems even worse.
Again, this is an arcane bureaucratic discussion, which will recommend an extensive overhaul of the corporate organizational chart. A few titles will be shuffled at WMF, raises granted to new section heads to compensate them for their increased "responsibilities," more staff will be hired (many with exotic names!), and another new proposal will make its way through the pipeline during fall vacation season next year...

RfB
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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Kumioko » Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:39 pm

I think that's probably a very good possibility of what's likely to happen.

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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Poetlister » Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:36 pm

Maria wrote:. We conclude that mechanisms that fail to acknowledge the ecosystem they are part of cannot succceed. Therefore, further research is needed to determine if granting more decision-making power to non-administrators may lead to more effective conflict resolution mechanisms.
It's typical consultants' waffle. The first sentence is all jargon. The second one says "We don't know the answer yet - more money please."
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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by rhindle » Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:24 pm

research paper wrote: 90% (62 out of 69) of total cases presented by nonadmins were dismissed by the CRC. [Comité de Resolución de Conflictos]
If it was an admin presenting a case, it was accepted 44% of the time.
Of those cases presented by non-admins and accepted by the CRC, 22% would have a resolution that included a warning to the user who opened the case to not misuse the CRC by filing cases or face sanctions.
I would guess that most non-admin Arb case attempts probably get rejected because they did not try to use preliminary DR processes. Admins who bring cases to arbcom probably most likely going there because of previous DR attempts that did not go anywhere. Some people just want to bypass the first steps and go to the highest authority for relief. Why talk to the assistant manager in person when you can write a letter to the CEO?

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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Osborne » Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:13 pm

rhindle wrote: Admins who bring cases to arbcom probably most likely going there because of previous DR attempts that did not go anywhere. Some people just want to bypass the first steps and go to the highest authority for relief. Why talk to the assistant manager in person when you can write a letter to the CEO?
I went to arbcom directly for 2 reasons: no access to noticeboards, the noticeboard is "OWN"ed by the admin I intended to report :rotfl:
Btw, I think there was recently a case request at arb without previous noticeboard discussion, but I'm not digging it up now.

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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by 10920 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:42 am

Vigilant wrote: There are no conclusions in the CONCLUSIONS section?
CONCLUSIONS AND FURTHER RESEARCH

English Wikipedia ArbCom requires identification to the Wikimedia Foundation and there is oversight. Spanish
Wikipedia never evolved to this point before it was dissolved.

It would be interesting to see if these factors play a part in holding the committee accountable to the wider community.

While not all projects have an ArbCom, several have an Administrators’ Noticeboard, including Spanish Wikipedia.
These usually are the last instance of conflict resolution.
In these administrators’ noticeboards, the decision-making also is usually in the hands of admins only, although some projects
allow the comments of non-admins before an admin resolves the issue.

Is this tenable in the long-term?

Could the lack of diversity be a negative factor in the conflict resolution in those projects, leading to difficulties to retain its contributors?

Could this also have an effect on the Requests for Adminship, if the role of administrators has moved from a merely technical
oversight to decision-making?

Future research could help elucidate the questions to these answers.
You don't ask a series of unanswerable, given the presented evidence, questions in your CONCLUSION section.
That is the opposite of a CONCLUSION!
What the actual fuck?!

The kicker
ACKNOWLEDGMENTS

We thank L. Hale for her technical support to undertake this study.


So, there is only one takeaway from this: Maria Sefidari is an academic fraud.

This is great.

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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by 10920 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:06 am

mendaliv wrote:I think Jehochman decided he didn't want BU Rob13 to win the Boob of Framgate award after all.
A callback to my first post!

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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by mendaliv » Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:03 am

10920 wrote:
mendaliv wrote:I think Jehochman decided he didn't want BU Rob13 to win the Boob of Framgate award after all.
A callback to my first post!
An excellent post it was.
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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:09 am

mendaliv wrote:I think Jehochman decided he didn't want BU Rob13 to win the Boob of Framgate award after all.
The Boob of Framgate sounds like a horrifically bad gothic romance novel.

RfB

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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by mendaliv » Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:30 am

Randy from Boise wrote:
mendaliv wrote:I think Jehochman decided he didn't want BU Rob13 to win the Boob of Framgate award after all.
The Boob of Framgate sounds like a horrifically bad gothic romance novel.

RfB
Fund it.
“It is a fair summary of history to say that the safeguards of liberty have frequently been forged in controversies involving not very nice people.” United States v. Rabinowitz, 339 U.S. 56, 68, 69 (1950) (Frankfurter, J. dissenting).

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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by MrErnie » Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:46 am

Has there been any further discussion of the behavior referenced by Headbomb or Slatersteven? A user named Ademar brought those diffs up again on the Workshop talk page, speculating that nobody sent in any evidence specific to those comments. WormTT said previously that he understands why T&S dropped the ban based on their document, and perhaps had hoped someone sent in a particular incident; it appears, however, that this one was missed.

Also, since WikiRev is now down, is TDA posting commentary somewhere else? He's had some good insight along the way.

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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Poetlister » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:03 am

rhindle wrote:
research paper wrote: 90% (62 out of 69) of total cases presented by nonadmins were dismissed by the CRC. [Comité de Resolución de Conflictos]
If it was an admin presenting a case, it was accepted 44% of the time.
Of those cases presented by non-admins and accepted by the CRC, 22% would have a resolution that included a warning to the user who opened the case to not misuse the CRC by filing cases or face sanctions.
I would guess that most non-admin Arb case attempts probably get rejected because they did not try to use preliminary DR processes. Admins who bring cases to arbcom probably most likely going there because of previous DR attempts that did not go anywhere. Some people just want to bypass the first steps and go to the highest authority for relief. Why talk to the assistant manager in person when you can write a letter to the CEO?
Undoubtedly, the average admin will be far better at presenting stuff in the correct Wikiway than most non-admins. The system is rigged towards the knowledgeable and experienced, as indeed are most systems.
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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Kumioko » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:47 am

I think that's probably true but really even very few admins would do it well. Since Fram has submitted a couple cases a year for the last decade, having him gone will cut down on Arbcom's workload substantially.

I also agree that the system is rigged, but not necessarily that the admins are more competent. They are favored BECAUSE they are admins, not because they are better or more knowledgeable.

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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Vigilant » Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:54 pm

This whole Fram case must be emasculating as hell for ARBCOM.

They're used to being the last stop on the big cases, but are reduced to wondering whether they've maligned a respondent enough to serve their masters at T&S.
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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Ryuichi » Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:38 pm

MrErnie wrote:Has there been any further discussion of the behavior referenced by Headbomb or Slatersteven? A user named Ademar brought those diffs up again on the Workshop talk page, speculating that nobody sent in any evidence specific to those comments.
Who & what do we think they're referring to?

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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by MrErnie » Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:31 pm

Ryuichi wrote:
MrErnie wrote:Has there been any further discussion of the behavior referenced by Headbomb or Slatersteven? A user named Ademar brought those diffs up again on the Workshop talk page, speculating that nobody sent in any evidence specific to those comments.
Who & what do we think they're referring to?
Only things I could imagine would be Francis Schonken / Mathsco or Elisa.Rolle, outside of Laura Hale.

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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:52 pm

Vigilant wrote:This whole Fram case must be emasculating as hell for ARBCOM.

They're used to being the last stop on the big cases, but are reduced to wondering whether they've maligned a respondent enough to serve their masters at T&S.
Hey, Siri: Can women be emasculated?

RfB




P.S. Magic 8-Ball says: Signs point to No.

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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Vigilant » Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:05 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:
Vigilant wrote:This whole Fram case must be emasculating as hell for ARBCOM.

They're used to being the last stop on the big cases, but are reduced to wondering whether they've maligned a respondent enough to serve their masters at T&S.
Hey, Siri: Can women be emasculated?

RfB




P.S. Magic 8-Ball says: Signs point to No.
I'm not doing gender neutral observations for groups of assholes.
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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:08 pm

Vigilant wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:
Vigilant wrote:This whole Fram case must be emasculating as hell for ARBCOM.

They're used to being the last stop on the big cases, but are reduced to wondering whether they've maligned a respondent enough to serve their masters at T&S.
Hey, Siri: Can women be emasculated?

RfB




P.S. Magic 8-Ball says: Signs point to No.
I'm not doing gender neutral observations for groups of assholes.
Ah, you missed your punchline, Vig:

I'm not doing gender neutral observations for a bunch of pricks...

RfB

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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Midsize Jake » Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:01 pm

MrErnie wrote:
Ryuichi wrote:Who & what do we think they're referring to?
Only things I could imagine would be Francis Schonken / Mathsci or Elisa.Rolle, outside of Laura Hale.
Headbomb (T-C-L) was probably referring to Elisa Rolle, given that he posted that back in mid-June when the whole thing was first blowing up and they were all desperately looking for alternatives to the "Hale theory" in order to maintain their mass-delusion that the WMF isn't simply a giant haven of crass nepotism. At that time, Rolle was the most likely alternative out there, IMO.

I suspect Slatersteven (T-C-L), who posted that less than a week ago, was probably just blowing smoke out his butthole for the pure enjoyment of it. He hasn't posted anything substantial to that page, he clearly doesn't like Mr. Fram personally, and based on most of the interactions I've seen, his entire formal education must have consisted of watching the Monty Python "Argument Clinic" sketch over and over again for about 15 years until someone said he could stop.

Anyhoo...

Both Fram and Francis Schonken (T-C-L) live in Belgium, and while there are obviously millions of people in Belgium, that does sort of increase the chance that they know each other personally... Would that make him more or less likely to report Fram to T&S, though? I would think less, but of course it really depends on the situation.

Btw, Fram's block on Mr. Schonken's account has less than two months before it expires, so if Fram isn't there to adjudicate that rather silly dispute with Mathsci (T-C-L), who else is going to do it?

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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Cla68 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:54 pm

Vigilant wrote:Given how the WMUK was compromised by the likes of Ashely van Haeftan, Roger Bamkin, etc, and given the near coup attempt on WMAU by Laura Hale, Ross Mallet aka Hawkeye7 and others, and given what I'm seeing at WMES with Maria Sefidari Huici and Laura Hale, I have to wonder how many of the national affiliates AREN'T grifter nests.
This is another topic, but as flush as the WMF is with money, I'm surprised that more people don't start a Wikimedia chapter and start requesting a plethora of grants from the WMF for dubious projects with the end goal of providing themselves a salary for doing nothing. It appears that if you say the right things and play the game correctly the WMF will throw money at you.

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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Vigilant » Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:07 pm

Cla68 wrote:
Vigilant wrote:Given how the WMUK was compromised by the likes of Ashely van Haeftan, Roger Bamkin, etc, and given the near coup attempt on WMAU by Laura Hale, Ross Mallet aka Hawkeye7 and others, and given what I'm seeing at WMES with Maria Sefidari Huici and Laura Hale, I have to wonder how many of the national affiliates AREN'T grifter nests.
This is another topic, but as flush as the WMF is with money, I'm surprised that more people don't start a Wikimedia chapter and start requesting a plethora of grants from the WMF for dubious projects with the end goal of providing themselves a salary for doing nothing. It appears that if you say the right things and play the game correctly the WMF will throw money at you.
Hmmmm....

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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Vigilant » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:53 pm

Suddenly, everything sticks more than it used to.
I think you're making rather too much of the "70 pages" figure. Try copying the evidence page for the current Poland case into a word processor: it's about 40 pages of 12 pt, 1.5-spaced text. And that's with strict word limits and liberal use of diffs. The T&S report contains pages and pages of verbatim copies of emails and on-wiki comments. Much of it has also been mentioned in the community evidence. We've summarised the main points and really, beyond that, there aren't any major revelations. – Joe (talk) 08:59, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
The community has been told since the beginning that T&S has "70 pages of evidence".
"verbatim copies of emails and on-wiki comments" sounds like someone trying to run the score up in an appeal to authority logical fallacy.
"Look, he's got to be guilty! Looks at ALL of the evidence we've compiled! SEVENTY PAGES!" type of duplicity.

On the other hand, "The community" submitted less than a page of stale, out of scope, copy/pasta shit.
If that's functionally equivalent to the T&S "dossier", which a sitting arb is now implying, then it's pretty clear that this railroading on the part of the T&S was intentional and corrupt.
And ARBCOM is complicit for refusing to call this out.
Their silence condemns them.


There's really only one way to read this:

The Trust and Safety of the Wikimedia Foundation attempted to manufacture voluminous evidence to falsely accuse Fram of harassment and thus ban him.
They did to protect Laura Hale, a serial grifter, who is the spouse of the Chair of the Board of Directors, from necessary scrutiny after her edits for pay were found to be damaging the encyclopedia.
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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Anroth » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:58 pm

Midsize Jake wrote: Btw, Fram's block on Mr. Schonken's account has less than two months before it expires, so if Fram isn't there to adjudicate that rather silly dispute with Mathsci (T-C-L), who else is going to do it?
They are currently under an indefinite interaction ban with each other. So I imagine the first person who blinks gets banned.

Mathsci is really petty and vindictive however. Wouldnt surprise me to see him emerge just before FS's ban is up and start editing a load of the articles FS is likely to return to.

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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by mendaliv » Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:06 pm

Anroth wrote:
Midsize Jake wrote: Btw, Fram's block on Mr. Schonken's account has less than two months before it expires, so if Fram isn't there to adjudicate that rather silly dispute with Mathsci (T-C-L), who else is going to do it?
They are currently under an indefinite interaction ban with each other. So I imagine the first person who blinks gets banned.

Mathsci is really petty and vindictive however. Wouldnt surprise me to see him emerge just before FS's ban is up and start editing a load of the articles FS is likely to return to.
God, I remember Mathsci from a decade ago. I remember him being a prick of sorts. What happened to him in the interim?
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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Vigilant » Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:16 pm

mendaliv wrote:
Anroth wrote:
Midsize Jake wrote: Btw, Fram's block on Mr. Schonken's account has less than two months before it expires, so if Fram isn't there to adjudicate that rather silly dispute with Mathsci (T-C-L), who else is going to do it?
They are currently under an indefinite interaction ban with each other. So I imagine the first person who blinks gets banned.

Mathsci is really petty and vindictive however. Wouldnt surprise me to see him emerge just before FS's ban is up and start editing a load of the articles FS is likely to return to.
God, I remember Mathsci from a decade ago. I remember him being a prick of sorts. What happened to him in the interim?
Antony Wassermann.

He's had at least one stroke and I suspect is in extremely poor health.
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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by tarantino » Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:18 pm

mendaliv wrote:
Anroth wrote:
Midsize Jake wrote: Btw, Fram's block on Mr. Schonken's account has less than two months before it expires, so if Fram isn't there to adjudicate that rather silly dispute with Mathsci (T-C-L), who else is going to do it?
They are currently under an indefinite interaction ban with each other. So I imagine the first person who blinks gets banned.

Mathsci is really petty and vindictive however. Wouldnt surprise me to see him emerge just before FS's ban is up and start editing a load of the articles FS is likely to return to.
God, I remember Mathsci from a decade ago. I remember him being a prick of sorts. What happened to him in the interim?
He had a stroke and various other health problems that he's detailed on his talk page.

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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Kumioko » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:25 am

Well that's too bad, I always thought he was a jerk too but it's too bad he's having health problems.

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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Poetlister » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:53 am

Vigilant wrote:There's really only one way to read this:

The Trust and Safety of the Wikimedia Foundation attempted to manufacture voluminous evidence to falsely accuse Fram of harassment and thus ban him.
They did to protect Laura Hale, a serial grifter, who is the spouse of the Chair of the Board of Directors, from necessary scrutiny after her edits for pay were found to be damaging the encyclopedia.
I quite agree. However, there are people here who would add "But we don't like Fram and we think he deserves to be banned, even if it's a political ban on trumped-up charges." I disagree with that; if there is legitimate evidence for a ban, let him be accused of his real offences.
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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Mason » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:48 pm

And now a backdoor attempt to make some of the public "evidence" private.

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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Vigilant » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:06 pm

Mason wrote:And now a backdoor attempt to make some of the public "evidence" private.
In the middle of an ongoing case, you have the WMF trying to delete potentially exculpating information.
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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Kumioko » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:57 pm

Poetlister wrote:
Vigilant wrote:There's really only one way to read this:

The Trust and Safety of the Wikimedia Foundation attempted to manufacture voluminous evidence to falsely accuse Fram of harassment and thus ban him.
They did to protect Laura Hale, a serial grifter, who is the spouse of the Chair of the Board of Directors, from necessary scrutiny after her edits for pay were found to be damaging the encyclopedia.
I quite agree. However, there are people here who would add "But we don't like Fram and we think he deserves to be banned, even if it's a political ban on trumped-up charges." I disagree with that; if there is legitimate evidence for a ban, let him be accused of his real offences.
I don't know why you all are so worried about trumpted up charges, or no official charges at all, by the T&S Section. It's not like this is the first time, Fram was just the first admin they did it too.

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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Vigilant » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:07 pm

Kumioko wrote:
Poetlister wrote:
Vigilant wrote:There's really only one way to read this:

The Trust and Safety of the Wikimedia Foundation attempted to manufacture voluminous evidence to falsely accuse Fram of harassment and thus ban him.
They did to protect Laura Hale, a serial grifter, who is the spouse of the Chair of the Board of Directors, from necessary scrutiny after her edits for pay were found to be damaging the encyclopedia.
I quite agree. However, there are people here who would add "But we don't like Fram and we think he deserves to be banned, even if it's a political ban on trumped-up charges." I disagree with that; if there is legitimate evidence for a ban, let him be accused of his real offences.
I don't know why you all are so worried about trumpted up charges, or no official charges at all, by the T&S Section. It's not like this is the first time, Fram was just the first admin they did it too.
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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Poetlister » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:17 pm

Vigilant wrote:
Mason wrote:And now a backdoor attempt to make some of the public "evidence" private.
In the middle of an ongoing case, you have the WMF trying to delete potentially exculpating information.
Is that further evidence that Fram is not guilty as charged, whether or not he is guilty of something else? It's a bit pointless when all the Arbs have presumably seen it and can continue to see it.
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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Kumioko » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:23 pm

I really think there are a couple different groups working to improve different types of editors, not necessarily together or for the same goals.

I do absolutely believe that there are some who are trying to push out non like thinkers so that those that are left will be like minded and will help to push that POV in the projects. That would be of the liberal mindset BTW.

There is also a group that is trying to recruit more women; another trying to recruit more LGBT community; others recruiting for various national interests included the global south, but also the middle east; there is another group targetting college students, etc. Most of these that are targetted for recruitment tend to share that same liberal and democratic mindset...although not all. That will gradually change the dynamic of the information on the various Wikipedias to undermine the neutrality of the information contained in them even more than it has already.

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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Poetlister » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:33 pm

Kumioko wrote:I really think there are a couple different groups working to improve different types of editors, not necessarily together or for the same goals.

I do absolutely believe that there are some who are trying to push out non like thinkers so that those that are left will be like minded and will help to push that POV in the projects. That would be of the liberal mindset BTW.

There is also a group that is trying to recruit more women; another trying to recruit more LGBT community; others recruiting for various national interests included the global south, but also the middle east; there is another group targetting college students, etc. Most of these that are targetted for recruitment tend to share that same liberal and democratic mindset...although not all. That will gradually change the dynamic of the information on the various Wikipedias to undermine the neutrality of the information contained in them even more than it has already.
Ah, but the wisdom of crowds and the need to source everything properly and WP:WEIGHT and so on and so on will solve any issue with bias, won't they? :pigsfly:
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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by eagle » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:53 pm

Vigilant wrote:
Mason wrote:And now a backdoor attempt to make some of the public "evidence" private.
In the middle of an ongoing case, you have the WMF trying to delete potentially exculpating information.
I believe this is the deletion of the User Page and User Talk page formerly known as LauraHale. So, all of the links on all of the other article talk pages have gone red. If the Fram-LauraHale interactions are the subject of an on-going ArbCom proceeding, and the Chair of the WMF is trying to cover up what really happened, it would be best if she resign from the WMF Board, because recusal is not working.

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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Vigilant » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:56 pm

Given how much shit I'm digging up, I'd advise Fram to exercise whatever rights to get data from the WMF that the EU affords him.

It's certain that Laura Hale has conspired with employees of the WMF to ban him.
It's certain that this was done to prevent her burgeoning 'career' with the WMF from being derailed.
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Re: Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by Jeff Hawke » Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:16 pm

Vigilant wrote: There's really only one way to read this:

The Trust and Safety of the Wikimedia Foundation attempted to manufacture voluminous evidence to falsely accuse Fram of harassment and thus ban him.
They did to protect Laura Hale, a serial grifter, who is the spouse of the Chair of the Board of Directors, from necessary scrutiny after her edits for pay were found to be damaging the encyclopedia.
I think this analysis fails to give due weight to the very considerable resentment felt by WMF staff against users who dare to criticise their competence, especially when those criticisms are cogent and well-founded. Since Fram has ben levelling very cogent well-founded criticism against some of the WMF's more egregious software flops for years now, my suggestion is that a lot of the secret evidence consists of WMF staff members saying "Fram pointed out how bad my code is and I'm really really upset now." I doubt it was necessary to manufacture evidence, just send a circular round the office asking if anyone had ever been upset by something Fram said. As for the motive you suggest, may be, maybe not.

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