Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

Unread post by **Smiley** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:59 pm

Possibly erring on the side of caution I’ve deleted the page under the CSD attack page/negative unsourced BLP criteria. Do not restore it until ArbCom rules. Jehochman (T-C-L) 12:56, 1 July 2019

Who are you and what have you done with the real Jonathan Hochman?

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:13 pm

mendaliv wrote:What's the story here though? Why'd he suddenly do this?

Usually that means that WO has guessed right about the vanished's lies and that the vanished can see that they're in a corner and about to get righteously embarrassed.

Guido den Broeder · Unread post by **Guido den Broeder** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:35 pm

Smiley wrote:Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Disputed_Signpost_article (T-H-L)

For some reason they now think that WP:BLP applies to a wiki-only pseudonym.

The Signpost also approached me, but I've ignored their requests since a shoot-the-messenger episode was bound to happen.

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:38 pm

10920 wrote:
Smiley wrote:Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Disputed_Signpost_article (T-H-L)
Now included by WBG.

It is evident that the Signpost is rotten like the WMF and should just be discontinued after this farce.

By the time ArbCom does anything (if they do), it'll already be too late.

With SmallBoner at the helm, it was only a matter of time.

Disgruntled haddock · Unread post by **Disgruntled haddock** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:38 pm

Guido den Broeder wrote:
Smiley wrote:Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Disputed_Signpost_article (T-H-L)
For some reason they now think that WP:BLP applies to a wiki-only pseudonym.

It does. Per WP:BLPTALK:

Although this policy applies to posts about Wikipedians in project space, some leeway is permitted to allow the handling of administrative issues by the community, but administrators may delete such material if it rises to the level of defamation, or if it constitutes a violation of no personal attacks.

(emphasis mine)

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:45 pm

From Fram's meta page
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_ta ... st_article

And then the shit hit the fan

"Fram, You do realize that you are apparently outing the admin you mention, don't you? You shouldn't be playing hardball with me like that. I'm pretty sure you could get permanently globally banned for that now. If you'd like to delete the meta page and say whatever you'd like as a response to the admin in the same number of words the admin used (125) without identifying him in any way, we could probably do that. The offer stands for 1 hour. User:Smallbones" (29 jun. 2019 21:11)

Shades of FT2 and the Hammer email.

MrErnie · Unread post by **MrErnie** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:45 pm

Guido den Broeder wrote:
Smiley wrote:Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Disputed_Signpost_article (T-H-L)
For some reason they now think that WP:BLP applies to a wiki-only pseudonym.

The Signpost also approached me, but I've ignored their requests since a shoot-the-messenger episode was bound to happen.

This is amazing. I'm sorry to call out Kumioko here, but imagine if the Signpost ran an article featuring an interview with Kumioko concerning how he felt about admins who'd taken action against him? Smallbones ought to be indef'd for that article, his opposition research, and his threats to Fram.

Capeo · Unread post by **Capeo** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:47 pm

Predictably, some people were trying to claim some kind of journalistic exemption for the Signpost. For staters, no competent journalist would ever publish an “anonymous” quote that contains details that easily identify the person being quoted.

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:51 pm

WMF legal should get involved here.

The Signpost is an official organ of en.wp.

Fram's situation is vastly different than Abd's/Swivel-Eyed-Loon's.

He's in European Union jurisdiction, he's not clearly insane, and the WMF has targeted him in ways that are hard to overstate.

Their exposure is only likely to increase.

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:51 pm

mendaliv wrote:
Vigilant wrote:I don't consort with apologists for that type of person.
lmao what a diva

Mendaliv, "Well, the Fuhrer is not someone I like, but this Goebbels seems a nice fellow..."

Dennis Brown · Unread post by **Dennis Brown** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:53 pm

Vigilant wrote: Old timey, voodoo magic in what should be a tech industry with 4 foot UV fluorescent bulbs.

It's an honest mistake, but you aren't quite understanding. I design UV lights to supplement regular MH, HPS, CMH and LED lights. UV only to fill out the spectrum, going from 280nm-400nm only. We work with Texas A&M, Purdue, Univ. of Florida, US Dept of Agriculture and US Dept. of Energy. Plus I've personally worked with Ed Rosenthal and Michael Wolf "Farmer in the Sky" Segal a great deal. It's not for general lighting, but to suppress powdery mildew and insects, and more importantly, to trigger the UVR8 protein (285-288nm) to cause a defensive reaction in cannabis, and they produce a minimum of 15% more THC. We also produce UV bulbs in a variety of spectral outputs for use in dozens of other industries. We make best selling UV light for violin curing. National Guitar uses our lamps. Even some nail salons use our "Curall 365", as does Kohler engines, for emissions and smog testing. We do not make "grow lights". We were the first to produce UV bulbs specifically for horticulture, and our current "Flower Power" is the best selling UV bulb for horticulture in the US, Canada and Europe (through our master distributor in the UK) It would be pretty stupid to do general lighting with fluorescent bulbs for the reasons you stated. But this is what I've done for 26 years, not just tanning bed stuff for UVA SunSystems (which was easy and paid very well, so of course I did it). Solacure is a whole different animal, much more technology based than tanning beds.

These aren't things I would talk about onwiki, which is why no one there *really* knows me. UVB and cannabis has been written about a great deal since the 1980s, and even before that. Hydromag (UK) did a couple of articles on me and Solacure. I didn't run any ads or pay for it, but they thought it interesting enough to write about. If you grow, it's worth researching.

https://hydromag.co.uk/product-guides/e ... -lighting/

https://hydromag.co.uk/industry-insider ... -solacure/

DanMurphy · Unread post by **DanMurphy** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:56 pm

Background on Smallbones AKA Peter Ekman, one of Wikipedia's longest running grudge hounds.

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:56 pm

Is it just me or is there a cadre of Cascadia types who are the core of this rotten borough?

Alex Shih · Unread post by **Alex Shih** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:58 pm

So now we have 3 out of 8 active arbitrators (I am sure all of them are aware of the request; these folks are very active in chit-chatting "behind the scenes") editing elsewhere on Wikipedia after the latest case request was submitted, effectively deciding that other matters (reverting vandalism?) on Wikipedia are more important than something in which overwhelming number of editors are requesting immediate opinion/intervention from ArbCom? Another justification that ArbCom are incapable of dealing with issues that actually requires them to do something more than saying "decline - not our scope"?

And why is our good old friend Worm That Turned continuing to escape from responsibility when his participation is being needed the most? Resign if you are not going to do the job, a job that requires you to be more than "deeply saddened", being self righteous without doing anything productive, or only making sure everybody on the committee sings kumbaya together.

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:08 pm

Names to faces

Smallbones aka Peter D(ickless) Ekman

Totally no unhinged Signpost editor and JimboStalk page litter box cleaner.

Another picture in this article

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:22 pm

mendaliv wrote:
Jans Hammer wrote:
mendaliv wrote:
Vigilant wrote:I don't consort with apologists for that type of person.
lmao what a diva
New name https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:C ... qcvm8ut9w3
a breach of WP:UNCONF, surely?
AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA what the fuck?
10:08, 1 July 2019‎ Oshwah talk contribs‎ m 11 bytes 0‎ Protected "User:BU Rob13": Harassment and outing ([Edit=Require administrator access] (indefinite) [Move=Require administrator access] (indefinite))
Looks like someone's getting a fresh start.

I'm sure next time his first edit will be to correct a punctuation error on the article underpants (T-H-L)or something rather than leaping straight into template editing...

RfB

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:26 pm

Vigilant wrote:Is it just me or is there a cadre of Cascadia types who are the core of this rotten borough?

Gamaliel is from Florida and Smallbones is from New York, I believe. So leave us out of it.

tim
Corvallis, OR

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:26 pm

Megalibrarygirl (T-C-L) seems to think that the signpost article was okie-dokie.

Unproven and disputed claims laid against someone who can't respond.

Well, ok then, but remember you asked for it.

Susan Barnum (born February 5, 1975) is a Public Services Librarian who lives in El Paso, Texas. She's a good researcher who likes uncovering new facts. She enjoys teaching others how to use the library and find useful information both in print and digitally. Her main interests in Wikipedia are in the areas of atheism and El Paso history, library history and anything else that catches her fancy. She is also interested in ensuring that information is properly sourced and relevant to articles in Wikipedia. She really enjoys expanding articles that used to be stubs. She's still learning about copyright (there is a lot to learn!)

https://www.linkedin.com/in/megalibrarygirl/

Susan Barnum

Library Branch Manager at El Paso Public Library (TX)

University of North Texas

Always searching for new ways to integrate technology,
information and the library into a meaningful experience for all patrons. I am especially interested in social media and working with teens.

Passionate about reaching under-served library patrons. Everyone should have access to the library in some way. Outreach, whether it be virtual or constitute library visits to other locations, is essential.

Specialties: Social media, research, teen programming, story time, storytelling, video editing, photography, drawing, reader's advisory

Experience
El Paso Public Library (TX)
Library Branch Manager
El Paso Public Library (TX)
Sep 2018 – Present
11 mos
Westside Library

El Paso Public Library
7 yrs 9 mos
Public Services Librarian
Sep 2015 – Present
3 yrs 11 mos
Main Branch
Head of the Teen department at the Main Library. Supervise two youth services employees. Set up and manage the library's Makerspace. Develop programming for teens and pre-teens. Grant writing and community outreach.

Public Services Librarian
Sep 2013 – Sep 2015
2 yrs 1 mo
Main Branch
Public services assistance to the public in Teen Town at the Main Library Branch. Create programming for teens, assist in job skills for teens and write grants. Won and produced a YALSA Summer Learning grant, teaching technology to teens and pre-teens in the summer of 2014. Worked with electronics, basic programming and robotics.

Public Services Librarian
Dec 2012 – Sep 2013
10 mos
Westside Branch
Provide assistance to the public to locate information, find entertainment and learn how to use the library and its many services. Create unique programming and mentor teen services staff to expand programming for teens. Perform outreach services for teen and adult patrons. Manage staff in absence of branch manager. Collection development duties and finding ways to improv... See more

Partnership Public Services Librarian
Nov 2011 – Nov 2012
1 yr 1 mo
Jenna Welch & Laura Bush Community Library
Create community programming and manage the public library collection at the Jenna Welch and Laura Bush Community Library. Provide literacy outreach services and facilitate communications and sharing of materials between El Paso Community College, NW Library Branch and the El Paso Public Library.

City of El Paso
Library Information Specialist
City of El Paso
Jul 2007 – Jan 2012
4 yrs 7 mos
Perform reference work and reader's advisory for patrons and staff at the Information desk. Reference work at this library involves doing original researching, applying careful reference interview techniques and often demonstrating and showing how to use and improve many library databases and resources. Reference work also includes the ability to recommend pleasu... See more

US Army
E-4 Specialist PATRIOT Missile Operator/Maintainer
US Army
Jul 2000 – Jul 2002
2 yrs 1 mo
Maintenance on the PATRIOT Missile system; Worked on emergency measures in case of various hostile attacks and learned procedures for safety in the work environment.

Cross-training as needed when other soldiers were transferred to other posts. Learned r... See more

Kelvin Smith Library
Library Assistant III
Kelvin Smith Library
May 1996 – May 1999
3 yrs 1 mo
Created and maintained a Reserve collection for Case Western Reserve University Professors. Required strong knowledge of U.S. Copyright laws. Worked with professors closely to make rare materials available to students for various classes. Scanned and created Adobe PDF files using Adobe Acrobat. When permissions were secure, uploaded PDF files to professor's electr... See more

Education
University of North Texas
Master of Library & Information Science (MLIS) Library Information Science
Dates attended or expected graduation 2009 – 2013

Activities and Societies: Phi Kappa Phi, LISSA
Cleveland Institute of Art
Bachelor of Fine Arts Photography
Dates attended or expected graduation 1995 – 1999

Valley Forge High School

Welcome to the barrel...

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:32 pm

Feeling the Fram situation moving towards stalemate, I think the WMF toadies on WP are trying out a new slogan: "Fram is the New Gamergate." In so doing they're not only trying to make political hay, they're revisiting their fondest two years of on-wiki bullying and maliciousness...

Not going well for them so far.

RfB

eagle · Unread post by **eagle** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:34 pm

link https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... ode=source[/link]

The Board met yesterday to work on a full statement about this. It's not easy getting to consensus with a large group, but overall I think people are going to be happy with the statement and with the things we are asking the WMF staff to do going forward. As one board member wasn't present, we decided to give a bit more time so that we can get to unanimity.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 11:15, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Why, was "the one board member" off consoling Laura Hale?

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:41 pm

Vigilant wrote:Megalibrarygirl (T-C-L) seems to think that the signpost article was okie-dokie.

Unproven and disputed claims laid against someone who can't respond.

Well, ok then, but remember you asked for it. * * *

Casual visitors here should be sure to note that Susan explicitly names herself on Wiki -- and power to her for that -- and that there's no big identity-reveal going on in Vig's post here.

I don't know why anyone is shocked: librarians as a caste are rarely on the right side in a conflict between bureaucratic interest and the public interest.

RfB

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:43 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:
Vigilant wrote:Megalibrarygirl (T-C-L) seems to think that the signpost article was okie-dokie.

Unproven and disputed claims laid against someone who can't respond.

Well, ok then, but remember you asked for it. * * *
Casual visitors here should be sure to note that Susan explicitly names herself on Wiki -- and power to her for that -- and that there's no big identity-reveal going on in Vig's post here.

I don't know why anyone is shocked: librarians as a caste are rarely on the right side in a conflict between bureaucratic interest and the public interest.

RfB

Well, it makes me wonder what the university of north Texas would think about one of their employees casually libeling someone in a widely viewed public forum on company time.

Guido den Broeder · Unread post by **Guido den Broeder** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:50 pm

Disgruntled haddock wrote:
Guido den Broeder wrote:
Smiley wrote:Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Disputed_Signpost_article (T-H-L)
For some reason they now think that WP:BLP applies to a wiki-only pseudonym.
It does. Per WP:BLPTALK:

Although this policy applies to posts about Wikipedians in project space, some leeway is permitted to allow the handling of administrative issues by the community, but administrators may delete such material if it rises to the level of defamation, or if it constitutes a violation of no personal attacks.
(emphasis mine)

It doesn't. This section, too, is about living persons (it says so right at the beginning), not their pseudonyms.

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:51 pm

DanMurphy wrote:Background on Smallbones AKA Peter Ekman, one of Wikipedia's longest running grudge hounds.

Welcome back, Dan!

t

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:52 pm

Vigilant wrote:Well, it makes me wonder.........

No groin shots!

t

Carcharoth · Unread post by **Carcharoth** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:54 pm

eagle wrote:Hence, Maher's communication strategy of making this into another "Gamergate."

Quick query: did you mean Katherine Maher here or María Sefidari?

Cla68 · Unread post by **Cla68** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:59 pm

You all may have discussed this earlier in the thread, but some other interesting, tangenital aspects of this episode is that Breitbart, of all sites scooped the rest of the Internet on this story (the Buzzefeed story was published the following day). And it appears the The Devils Advocate has been one of the few able to monetize his Wikipedia experience, presuming that Breitbart is paying him for his articles. Luckily for Wikipedia, if the Buzzfeed story hadn't of been published, nothing could have been mentioned about this in article space, because Breitbart is banned as a source.

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:02 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:No groin shots!

What am I supposed to do when they are ALL groin?
Work with me here.

en.wp and the WMF have been more than happy to contact employers of unpersoned people in the past.

Unread post by **Smiley** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:03 pm

Cla68 wrote:You all may have discussed this earlier in the thread, but some other interesting, tangenital aspects of this episode is that Breitbart, of all sites scooped the rest of the Internet on this story (the Buzzefeed story was published the following day).

The Buzzfeed article was published 27 June, the Breitbart one 28 June.

Cla68 wrote:And it appears the The Devils Advocate has been one of the few able to monetize his Wikipedia experience, presuming that Breitbart is paying him for his articles.

He doesn't get paid.

Cla68 wrote:Luckily for Wikipedia, if the Buzzfeed story hadn't of been published, nothing could have been mentioned about this in article space, because Breitbart is banned as a source.

The Breitbart article was just whitelisted and can be used.

10920 · Unread post by **10920** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:03 pm

Smallbones and Megalibrarygirl are making me feel unsafe.

I think a report to Trust & Safety is in order.

10920 · Unread post by **10920** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:05 pm

Cla68 wrote:You all may have discussed this earlier in the thread, but some other interesting, tangenital aspects of this episode is that Breitbart, of all sites scooped the rest of the Internet on this story (the Buzzefeed story was published the following day). And it appears the The Devils Advocate has been one of the few able to monetize his Wikipedia experience, presuming that Breitbart is paying him for his articles. Luckily for Wikipedia, if the Buzzfeed story hadn't of been published, nothing could have been mentioned about this in article space, because Breitbart is banned as a source.

I don't know where you've been, but

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=10477

https://twitter.com/krmaher/status/1144394019893460993

Cla68 · Unread post by **Cla68** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:16 pm

Do we have a list of the 20+ admins who have resigned over this? Just a hunch on my part, but I doubt if the 20 includes many, if any, of the more notorious POV-pushing, agenda-driven admins who we all know and love. Those admins wouldn't allow standing on principle to get in their way of using Wikipedia to save humankind from whatever their pet cause is.

Poetlister · Unread post by **Poetlister** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:17 pm

10920 wrote:
Dennis Brown wrote: A bunch of new people are running for RFA now, Ritchie's doing. I don't think he realizes how this actually hurts the movement, but it doesn't matter. He's a good guy, just making the wrong moves here. It doesn't matter anyway.
It seems Ritchie does not appreciate the statement being made with all the admins resigning and he chooses this, of all times, to put his two pet projects up for RfA. Unfortunately, they're going to pass.

Obviously, with all these resignations some new admins are needed. However, panic appointments are unlikely to be helpful.

Unread post by **Smiley** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:18 pm

Cla68 wrote:Do we have a list of the 20+ admins who have resigned over this? Just a hunch on my part, but I doubt if the 20 includes many, if any, of the more notorious POV-pushing, agenda-driven admins who we all know and love. Those admins wouldn't allow standing on principle to get in their way of using Wikipedia to save humankind from whatever their pet cause is.

Wikipedia:Community_response_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation's_ban_of_Fram/Summary (T-H-L)

Cla68 · Unread post by **Cla68** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:20 pm

Smiley wrote:
Cla68 wrote:Do we have a list of the 20+ admins who have resigned over this? Just a hunch on my part, but I doubt if the 20 includes many, if any, of the more notorious POV-pushing, agenda-driven admins who we all know and love. Those admins wouldn't allow standing on principle to get in their way of using Wikipedia to save humankind from whatever their pet cause is.
Wikipedia:Community_response_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation's_ban_of_Fram/Summary (T-H-L)

Thank you and nope, I don't see anyone on that list who I've seen discussed as pushing a particular topic agenda in Wikipedia.

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:23 pm

Accept. I think in the light of views that ArbCom do not take harassment seriously enough, I will from this point until/if a better system of dealing with harassment is found be inclined toward accepting cases in which claims of harassment are made. SilkTork (talk) 13:58, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

I suspect that SmallBoner and MegaLibelGirl are about to be the reluctant recipients of a new prototype discipline system that they longed to target Fram with.

mendaliv · Unread post by **mendaliv** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:25 pm

Smiley wrote:
Possibly erring on the side of caution I’ve deleted the page under the CSD attack page/negative unsourced BLP criteria. Do not restore it until ArbCom rules. Jehochman (T-C-L) 12:56, 1 July 2019
Who are you and what have you done with the real Jonathan Hochman?

Just at the moment he had passed Rob in the "jackass" rankings he has to go and do something like this.

At least in my book this is an "all is forgiven" moment.

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:26 pm

Next up for Vigilant's funhouse treatment, Bri (T-C-L)

Buckle up, Cascadia buttercup.

mendaliv · Unread post by **mendaliv** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:29 pm

Vigilant wrote:WMF legal should get involved here.

The Signpost is an official organ of en.wp.

Fram's situation is vastly different than Abd's/Swivel-Eyed-Loon's.

He's in European Union jurisdiction, he's not clearly insane, and the WMF has targeted him in ways that are hard to overstate.

Their exposure is only likely to increase.

Yeah, I have no idea how CDA-like immunity works in the EU (there has to be something like it for social media to be a feasible business), as well as how those pesky forum selection and choice of law clauses are treated (far more interesting in my book). Could be a fun time. I really hope Fram is in close consultation with attorneys.

Poetlister · Unread post by **Poetlister** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:30 pm

Among the resignations we have TheDJ (T-C-L) who resigned to support the WMF ("I cannot support a community that undermines T&S"). Also, MikeLynch (T-C-L) resigned as Sanskrit Wikipedia admin and its sole bureaucrat, so this does not decrease the number of EN-WP admins, but shows that the damage is not limited to just EN-WP (not that anyone at WMF is likely to care about the Sanskrit site even if they are aware of it).

Cla68 · Unread post by **Cla68** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:33 pm

If it turns out that Fram really was sexually harassing one or more women or transgender editors, it's going to make Wikipedia look dreadful for having defended him and will provide credibility to the claim that the site is a haven for misogyny and toxic masculinity. I guess the only way that would happen, however, is if the victims come forward and provide some details. The details, if provided, I imagine would be fairly definitive as they likely consists of emails and other electronic communications. Nevertheless, I understand that you all, by some quality sleuthing, have found evidence that he may be being railroaded.

Capeo · Unread post by **Capeo** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:37 pm

Vigilant wrote:
Accept. I think in the light of views that ArbCom do not take harassment seriously enough, I will from this point until/if a better system of dealing with harassment is found be inclined toward accepting cases in which claims of harassment are made. SilkTork (talk) 13:58, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
I suspect that SmallBoner and MegaLibelGirl are about to be the reluctant recipients of a new prototype discipline system that they longed to target Fram with.

If Fram has more emails from Smallbones like the one he posted on his meta TP than Smallbones might be in for a world of hurt.

mendaliv · Unread post by **mendaliv** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:39 pm

Cla68 wrote:If it turns out that Fram really was sexually harassing one or more women or transgender editors, it's going to make Wikipedia look dreadful for having defended him and will provide credibility to the claim that the site is a haven for misogyny and toxic masculinity.

Regardless of whether he did, the same point has already been made, even where argument was explicitly being made on principled grounds (i.e., desire for process). We're well past the point where this whole affair has been called evidence of toxic masculinity.

Nevertheless, I understand that you all, by some quality sleuthing, have found evidence that he may be being railroaded.

If we have, I've not seen anything conclusive.

mendaliv · Unread post by **mendaliv** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:42 pm

Capeo wrote:If Fram has more emails from Smallbones like the one he posted on his meta TP than Smallbones might be in for a world of hurt.

I totally don't understand what's going on there.

10920 · Unread post by **10920** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:44 pm

Vigilant wrote:
Accept. I think in the light of views that ArbCom do not take harassment seriously enough, I will from this point until/if a better system of dealing with harassment is found be inclined toward accepting cases in which claims of harassment are made. SilkTork (talk) 13:58, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
I suspect that SmallBoner and MegaLibelGirl are about to be the reluctant recipients of a new prototype discipline system that they longed to target Fram with.

I am not as optimistic as you. If that happens, then there would be some unquestioned good coming out of this fiasco.

mendaliv · Unread post by **mendaliv** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:46 pm

Oh, what the fuck? BU Rob13's talk page archives have all been deleted.

10920 · Unread post by **10920** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:47 pm

mendaliv wrote:
Smiley wrote:
Possibly erring on the side of caution I’ve deleted the page under the CSD attack page/negative unsourced BLP criteria. Do not restore it until ArbCom rules. Jehochman (T-C-L) 12:56, 1 July 2019
Who are you and what have you done with the real Jonathan Hochman?
Just at the moment he had passed Rob in the "jackass" rankings he has to go and do something like this.

At least in my book this is an "all is forgiven" moment.

I thought my original question was still very much in the air until Rob landed the deciding blow by "vanishing" due to people "harassing him" and making him feel "unsafe" (read: reverting his edits and disagreeing with him).

Congratulations are in order. Rob, you win.

Every decision Rob was ever involved in during his disastrous tenure on ArbCom is suspect, IMO.

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:50 pm

Vigilant wrote:What am I supposed to do when they are ALL groin?
Work with me here.

en.wp and the WMF have been more than happy to contact employers of unpersoned people in the past.

True -- but we are bigger than them.

RfB

Carcharoth · Unread post by **Carcharoth** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:51 pm

Vigilant wrote:Next up for Vigilant's funhouse treatment, Bri (T-C-L)

Buckle up, Cascadia buttercup.

Why the focus on them (not sure of their gender)? Why not focus on their Signpost article rather than the person. Oh, I forgot, that's not your style.

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:52 pm

10920 wrote:
Cla68 wrote:You all may have discussed this earlier in the thread, but some other interesting, tangenital aspects of this episode is that Breitbart, of all sites scooped the rest of the Internet on this story...
I don't know where you've been...

.........reading Breitbart!!!

RfB