Wikipediocracy

Kelly Martin

Elinruby wrote: ↑
Tue Apr 23, 2024 10:50 pm
Is Joe Roe a bully?

He participates in the Wikipedia drama boards, so assume bully until proven otherwise seems like a good heuristic.

A lot of people participate in Wikipedia pretty much entirely because they want to lord over other people.

Kelly Martin

A strict reading of the tban would indeed mean that you cannot place COI notices on article talk pages. But at the same time one of the main demands was that you declare your COIs as transparently as possible. So there is an inherent conflict here. this is almost certainly intentional. they want he...

Kelly Martin

Rachel Helps wrote: ↑
Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:25 pm
What do you think is the actual reason I got banned? I would like to know what you think.

a combination of people being jealous of the fact that you get paid when they don't and the fact that you're editing to the benefit of an institution that is broadly unpopular with Wikipedians

Kelly Martin

yasslay wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 01, 2024 9:20 pm
we expected Arbcom to be more transparent this time

why would you ever expect the arbcom to do the right thing? do you enjoy being disappointed?

Kelly Martin

But with the recent discussion, mostly spurred on by JPS over on the talk page for Ammonihah and a few other places, the reliability of many of these sources is coming into question. But the way jps was talking about sources last week, I was puzzled about his criteria for when a source on the BoM i...

Kelly Martin

Wikipedia is definitely not the place for original literary criticism of any literary work, whether or not the work in question is viewed as sacred by a larger or smaller group of people. There is nothing wrong with literary criticism of works of authorship, but Wikipedia is not the place to publish...

Kelly Martin

It seems like the purpose of a WIR is supposed to be opening up the resources of an institution to the "Anyones" editing the encyclopedia; it should NOT be a program for paid editors to steer consensus to align with their interests. The actual goals of the WIR program: Recruit people into the "Wiki...

Kelly Martin

It's interesting that you called the ideology neocommunist. I think it's closer to anarcho-capitalist/libertarian. The neocommunists were there first. A large portion, possibly even a majority, of the community in the first couple of years were left-wing academic types, many of them communalists or...

Kelly Martin

The current COI guidance is the correct path. You cannot survive as a supposedly neutral reference work if you treat COI as merely a matter of effect not appearances. I think several problems are coming home to roost now. Matters of top level leadership, the pipeline of Admin renewal, the closed na...

Kelly Martin

Vigilant wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 14, 2024 12:46 pm
I'm starting to think there's an LDS connection here.

ding ding ding ding ding

Kelly Martin

I thought what he said here was a good example of boomer entitlement it also illustrates that dennis, despite years of exposure to the evidence, still does not understand that the vast bulk of the people who edit Wikipedia are under 25 and generally rely on others for their day to day sustenance a ...

Kelly Martin

Not disagreeing with you. But this is Fram, who goes about everything in the most aggressive and melodramatic way he possibly can, at every turn. this may simply be an organic response to wikipedia's ecosystem. issues that are not encapsulated in drama tend to get ignored entirely, and so if there ...

Kelly Martin

Because so-called "outing" is the third rail at WP and WMF can now settle any scores it wants to settle without due process or right of appeal thanks to UCOC. they'll make up any excuse they want to justify whatever result they want regardless of what you do. don't let unreasonable people control y...

Kelly Martin

There is already a critical shortage of admins when you're looking at it this way, rather than the ol "there's never too much of a backlog at ANI" metric. All of the admin tasks that take significant amounts of time are woefully understaffed. AE, AN/ANI closures, CTOP patrolling, and everything alo...

Kelly Martin

Kraken wrote: ↑
Thu Feb 29, 2024 5:07 pm
It should be the higher the status the lesser the crime to attract the same sanction.

Except this a cult, not a rational organization, and thus the higher the status the greater the crime has to be to even be noticed. Get with the program.

Kelly Martin

A lot of people were still on dial-up connections at that point, at least for residential access. And VPNs were more of a concept than a practical reality (though they did exist)... So, to the extent that geolocation was possible at all, it was usually more accurate than it is now. Prior to the 199...

Kelly Martin

Most IP vandalism is dealt with by bots and the ones that are not are dealt with by people that make that their only purpose on the pedia and it seems to make them happy indeed, the ongoing "health" of wikipedia's community is absolutely dependent on there being a steady stream of vandalism, includ...

Kelly Martin

as nobody should edit wikipedia, all of the answers to this poll are equivalent the reason why so much kerfuffle is made about this is that making the editing experience possible but unpleasant for IP editors is a recruitment strategy for the wikicult, and so the experience that IP editors experienc...

Kelly Martin

bagofworms wrote: ↑
Wed Feb 14, 2024 4:31 am
All Utahn editors are suspect.

ftfy

Kelly Martin

One thing you have to bear in mind is that what you have seen on Wikipedia (or at least what I have seen) is very naive use of easily accessible AI tools. The results that these things spit out depend a great deal on what you ask for and how you ask for it. Someone who knows how to write prompts ca...

Kelly Martin

The WMF's previous similar foray yielded the infamously broken tool Detox. Some fun threads to reread: https://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=10443&p=239804#p239801 https://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=10443&p=240425&hilit=broken+tool#p240408 https://wikipediocracy.c...

Kelly Martin

Well, no editors as such but lots of processes (DYK/GA/FA/OTD/ITN etc.) where people tell other people to fix things all the time. "Tell" is overstated here. At best, what is going on in all of those processes is impassionate begging. Nobody is under any obligation to give even the slightest bit of...

Kelly Martin

If you've actually read Britannica in a topic area where you have enough subject matter expertise to know what you're talking about, you'll know it's reputation for accuracy is grossly exaggerated. My point is not that Wikipedia's accuracy is great, but that it is comparable to other general refere...

Kelly Martin

I mean, Britannica arguably has a comparable frequently of error to Wikipedia, but they only have about 130,000 articles and actually pay people to edit/write. Given its immense scale and the inherently vulnerable nature of allowing anyone to edit, Wikipedia's overall accuracy rate and bias is not ...

Kelly Martin

I think the issue here is that the project has become a sprawling, unmaintainable behemoth, rather than any systemic NPOV issues. Not news, of course; Wikipedia doesn't have anywhere enough editors to keep up with the huge volume of content they allegedly manage. But we knew this well over a decade...

Kelly Martin

So one of the Minecraft modders I casually pay attention to had a statement on their announcement channel about some statement made by Overwolf (the owners of Curseforge, the leading platform for distributing Minecraft mods) in regard to the Israeli-Hamas conflict. I am specifically not seeking here...

Kelly Martin

LargelyRecyclable wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 30, 2023 5:52 am
Opinions are harm.

You can't have that user box.

holding opinions on what user boxes wikipedia editors should or should not have was my downfall as a wikipedia administrator

just sayin

Kelly Martin

A good person to have interviewed would have been Kelly Martin (the author may have, but it doesn't look like it), who has a lot of insight of the early days. She frequently used the phrase "of the body" iirc to describe the social capital of haves and have-nots on enwp. I don't know if she still s...

Kelly Martin

Freenode hasn't been the same since Rob Levin died. This is just the final nail in the coffin.

Kelly Martin

Whereas, Wikipedian admins love all that stuff. They practically live for it apparently, because it's a huge power trip for them and gives them something to do that doesn't involve boring article maintenance and content research. And since nobody is paying them, the WMF's attitude towards it is bas...

Kelly Martin

I'm painfully aware of a lot of the really stupid shit arbcom has done in the past, (in fact in the course of this I've looked at some of it up close and personal and been appalled at what I've found) but I'm also quite certain I am fully aware of the motivations behind this audit since it was my i...

Kelly Martin

I suppose it simply isn't possible to just take it at face value as a long-overdue house cleaning project? That every single thing any member of arbcom does is done for some nefarious secret purpose? I'll grant that I'm not being super specific about exactly what is being kept, and that is by desig...

Kelly Martin

European privacy protections are so strong that I wonder how such a private Wiki of personal information on EU persons be legal. GDPR doesn't apply to data about persons who are anonymous (Recital 26); if the holder of the data does not know who the natural person to whom it relates is, and cannot ...

Kelly Martin

Wikipedia policy allows people to edit anonymously and forbids any discussion of anonymous editors' real identities. Wikipedia policy also forbids undisclosed paid editing and discourages mainspace COI editing, meaning that in some cases, whether a series of edits is permissible depends on who the ...

Kelly Martin

Randy from Boise wrote: ↑
Sun May 02, 2021 4:52 am
We need a +1 feature on this site.

t

I would +1 this, except, well...

Kelly Martin

Look - this forum is basically for Wikipedia senior editors. I get it this is your thing and you'll hang your coat on anything that defends it including and especially a misdirect from the central financials. Still, the ad hominem attacks aren't useful. This here is basically why I rarely participa...

Kelly Martin

On this, Wikipedia does have a list of articles which lost their FA status, so as long as the articles in question haven't lost their FA status, do you think this would be a problem? Yes. There is no systematic review of FA content after the FA is designated a FA. A review will be conducted only if...

Kelly Martin

Non-profits in the same "space" are not competitors; I work for a UK national charity, the wife works for a non-profit and is on the board of another. Suffice to say that sentence is amazingly incorrect in practice in the UK. The competition starts as soon as the word 'funding' comes into play. Wha...

Kelly Martin

I'm going to point out that his fiduciary duty to the Board does not in any way prohibit him from participating in another non-profit with a similar or related purpose. Non-profits in the same "space" are not competitors; rather, they're common actors working toward the same goal. It is exceedingly ...

Kelly Martin

I've tried what Nemo is suggesting, and from experience I can quite confidently say it won't work. The major issue is with the templates that every Wikipedia article now depends on, and that's got little to do with Markup/down, it's that all the ones you'd want are written in Lua these days. Anothe...

Kelly Martin

Mediawiki is a pig, and will chew up your hosting allowances quite quickly. If you're not wanting to go bankrupt hosting this, I strongly suggest you use a different engine, one that isn't as steampunk as Mediawiki. This will probably also mean that you'll be using Markdown instead of Mediawiki mar...

Kelly Martin

Mediawiki is a pig, and will chew up your hosting allowances quite quickly. If you're not wanting to go bankrupt hosting this, I strongly suggest you use a different engine, one that isn't as steampunk as Mediawiki. This will probably also mean that you'll be using Markdown instead of Mediawiki mark...

Kelly Martin

One thing I do recall that was actually what I considered a good decision was that Jimbo just shut down the Klingon Wikipedia without asking anyone first. Yes, you read that right, at one point there was a version of Wikipedia written in the Klingon language from Star Trek. Jimbo issued the order w...

Kelly Martin

I wonder how much having paid staff to do "janitorial" work might impact on Section 230 protection. You might argue that janitorial work is not content creation, but what if a janitor reverts a POV change to a BLP article? Is that the WMF itself imposing an editorial decision on content? Having pai...

Kelly Martin

Reading that page I couldn't help but notice the word "ochlocracy", which I remember Jake rescuing from the dustbin of history here at WPO. Credit where credit is due, I'm pretty sure I got that word via Kelly Martin (though she might have also gotten it from someone else, possibly a WP person). Fa...

Kelly Martin

It really gets me at how good Wikipedia still is at attracting the cray cray, even after all these years.

Kelly Martin

Arbitration on-wiki is very different from the real world. That's because what you people call "arbitration" is not actually arbitration. What happens in the arbitration process is more about virtue signalling and community value reinforcement than it is about issue adjudication. Generally, the par...

Kelly Martin

I'd prefer that there were some people on ARBCOM with actual successful arbitration experience from the real world... The name of the committee is a misnomer. In the words of Kelly Martin, posted at WPO on Feb. 1, 2015: The ArbCom is in fact the disciplinary committee of an unincorporated voluntary...

Kelly Martin

ArbCom is sanctioning a false accusation that I have committed a crime. No, it's not. There's a concept in the US, at least, of something called "civil harassment" (harassment for which you can be sued, but not prosecuted). And conduct which is neither criminally nor civilly punishable may still be...

Kelly Martin

Well, Randy / Tim / Carrite, as long as the Arbitration committee allows their name to be lent to unfounded accusations of legal crimes, they are far from having atrophied themselves out of existence, they've just (been) slid off the stage. A reminder concerning the legal definition of "harassment"...

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